KXStudio - Carla

[spm_gl]

For me, wet/dry makes sense because not all plugins have it.
Imagine you like some reverb plugin, but it lacks "%wet" parameter. You want that reverb, but not as strong as it defaults to. The dry/wet would make sense here.

That's what sends are for. Okay, if you're using the plugin in a chain, yes, then perhaps it does make sense. Usually not though.

spm_gl wrote:
2. It's balance, not pan. Only mono signals have panorama, stereo signals have balance.
Oh, I didn't knew this...
AFAIK, the final effect is the same, so a simple rename should suffice?

Well, not quite. If your stereo signal is actually mono (i.e. both channels the same signal), the effect is the same. Imagine a dual-pan (one for each side) as opposed to a balance, then you'll understand the difference.
Balance says which side is louder, pan says which side should receive more signal. But for the end-user, it doesn't really matter. BTW, I'd really prefer two pan controls, then you can also change the stereo width.

Another good idea. But what if a synth also has audio input...?

Alpha blending overlay? If an effect has multiple in and outputs, you have problems anyway.

[DoosC]

It's like I said - it's easy to code and doesn't cost cpu, so I'll keep it.

I like it that way too. Simple and effective.

Two pan controls should not be hard, but I'm not sure how stereo width works.

Stop me if I'm wrong but dry/wet and panning sounds like features to me, but stereo width, isn't it an effect ? I'm mean I don't think it's the rack job to handle this, it's a the job of an effect plugin.
Anyway if you add stereo width at each stage, it will sound overly processed.

a simple metal plate with hand-written "Carla, blah blah" would work fine I guess.

I think it would be fine even without that. A simple empty space should be enough and won't add complexity to the UI.

Actually the latest Git already saves&load the full project (including custom/chunk data), just not for LV2 (will work on this later; there are too many extensions!).

Good news
For LV2, do you mean that for plugins like IR-LV2 the reference to the IR file in use is not saved in the project ?

I'm not sure if I understood this part

I was just proposing that you could add an option to have either a midi-in for each plugin or a general carla midi-in that would be the same for all plugins. Like automatically bridging all the midi-in into one (as an option, again). But that really wasn't an important point.

Yes! The internals for this are already done (note how Cadence apps handle Ctrl+C although they are python apps). This will be easy to add.

I'm not sure to understand your answer, I tried Ctrl+C and I haven't anything happening. What is the relation with ladish ?

thanks all for your opinions!

You are the one who should be thanked !
You really did an amazing job with the cadence tools.
And about carla, from an external point of view it seems that it popped out of nowhere and that it is more mature and sophisticated than many similar implementations out there.

And to conclude, a completely different question :
Did you get in touch with Thorwil's for the design of icons for the cadence tools ?
I hope the app will get an icon soon and become "public" so we can tell the world about it !

[spm_gl]

Stereo width is only an effect if you try to make it wider. Look at the ProTools mixer for dual pan controls on a stereo channel. I love it, because you can accurately place a stereo signal in the mix.
Regarding the VUs, for me a simple signal/clip LED would be sufficient, the DAW has enough VUs to check the levels. Oh, a MIDI rx/tx LED would be great. Perhaps you could even let the ring around the button flash a little.

Personally, I'd love to have the option of one MIDI port for the entire rack, and the ability to assign a dedicated port to a plugin if necessary. I always hate having to reconfigure all connections when I choose a different plugin. That goes for audio too.

I really look forward to using Carla, I've been looking for a plugin rack that suits my workflow. Now, if you can make the buttons nice and big, so I can use them on a touchscreen, you're my hero of the year.

[spm_gl]

Trying to add a plugin gives me:

Code: Select all

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "carla.py", line 280, in run
    ladspa_rdf_info = ladspa_rdf.recheck_all_plugins(self)
  File "/home/jan/Build/cadence/src/ladspa_rdf.py", line 703, in recheck_all_plugins
    parse_rdf_file(rdf_file)
  File "/home/jan/Build/cadence/src/ladspa_rdf.py", line 465, in parse_rdf_file
    sourceCode = StringInputSource(filecontent, Namespace('#'))
NameError: global name 'StringInputSource' is not defined

Am I missing some dependency? This is on Arch, BTW.

[spm_gl]

Which version of 'python-rdflib' do you have?

rdflib 3.1.0-1

Also, please run this on a terminal and post the output:
CODE: SELECT ALL
python2 #or just python if python2 is default, not sure what Arch uses
import rdflib
dir(rdflib)

Code: Select all

Python 2.7.2 (default, Jun 29 2011, 11:17:09) 
[GCC 4.6.1] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import rdflib
>>> dir(rdflib)
['BNode', 'ConjunctiveGraph', 'Graph', 'Literal', 'Namespace', 'OWL', 'RDF', 'RDFS', 'URIRef', 'Variable', 'XSD', '_LOGGER', '__all__', '__builtins__', '__date__', '__doc__', '__docformat__', '__file__', '__name__', '__package__', '__path__', '__version__', 'events', 'exceptions', 'graph', 'logging', 'namespace', 'parser', 'plugin', 'query', 'serializer', 'store', 'term', 'util']

[spm_gl]

Stereo width is only an effect if you try to make it wider. Look at the ProTools mixer for dual pan controls on a stereo channel. I love it, because you can accurately place a stereo signal in the mix.

Hm, can you show me a screenshot of this?

The first I've found: http://www.4creator.com/blog_img/62//protools_mixer.png

Carla already has a LED that tells you when a plugin is receiving MIDI notes or not (*notes*, not events).
Not sure about 'MIDI rx/tx' though. I feel like a noob asking this but anyway... what is it?

Exactly what I meant, a flashing light that shows MIDI transmit (tx) and receive (rx)

A single MIDI port for the entire rack is not possible, but I can easily make Carla remember and restore connections after save/load.
LADISH will handle this automatically though...

Pity. But I wanted to get into this whole Ladish thing anyway. Need to reconfigure my entire setup in the coming few weeks too.

The main Carla app is a desktop app, so big buttons don't make much sense.
I have 'Carla-Control' though (not pushed into Git yet), that will control a Carla rack using OSC.
^ This implementation will have big buttons and big VUs (care to do a mockup?)

I saw that in the README, and it put a big smile on my face. I'm planning to do a simple puredata gui for controlling the studio anyway, so that would be perfect. I already have a pd patch that controls the amplifier.

[spm_gl]

EDIT: Fixed in latest Git, please test

Well, now it parses the rdfs, but doesn't find any plugins. I had a look at the database.py, and I definitely have a couple of the listed plugins installed, even in the same path.
Tried running as root too, didn't help.

[spm_gl]

Still doesn't find any. Running python2 -dv carly.py gives me (upon refresh):

Code: Select all

carla_init()
import rdflib.plugins # directory /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/rdflib/plugins
# /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/rdflib/plugins/__init__.pyc matches /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/rdflib/plugins/__init__.py
import rdflib.plugins # precompiled from /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/rdflib/plugins/__init__.pyc
# /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/rdflib/plugins/memory.pyc matches /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/rdflib/plugins/memory.py
import rdflib.plugins.memory # precompiled from /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/rdflib/plugins/memory.pyc
import rdflib.plugins.parsers # directory /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/rdflib/plugins/parsers
# /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/rdflib/plugins/parsers/__init__.pyc matches /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/rdflib/plugins/parsers/__init__.py
import rdflib.plugins.parsers # precompiled from /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/rdflib/plugins/parsers/__init__.pyc
# /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/rdflib/plugins/parsers/rdfxml.pyc matches /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/rdflib/plugins/parsers/rdfxml.py
import rdflib.plugins.parsers.rdfxml # precompiled from /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/rdflib/plugins/parsers/rdfxml.pyc
import xml.sax.drivers2 # directory /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/_xmlplus/sax/drivers2
# /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/_xmlplus/sax/drivers2/__init__.pyc matches /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/_xmlplus/sax/drivers2/__init__.py
import xml.sax.drivers2 # precompiled from /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/_xmlplus/sax/drivers2/__init__.pyc
# /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/_xmlplus/sax/drivers2/drv_pyexpat.pyc matches /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/_xmlplus/sax/drivers2/drv_pyexpat.py
import xml.sax.drivers2.drv_pyexpat # precompiled from /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/_xmlplus/sax/drivers2/drv_pyexpat.pyc
# /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/_xmlplus/sax/expatreader.pyc matches /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/_xmlplus/sax/expatreader.py
import xml.sax.expatreader # precompiled from /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/_xmlplus/sax/expatreader.pyc
# /usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/ascii.pyc matches /usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/ascii.py
import encodings.ascii # precompiled from /usr/lib/python2.7/encodings/ascii.pyc

[DoosC]

Did you get in touch with Thorwil's for the design of icons for the cadence tools ?
I hope the app will get an icon soon and become "public" so we can tell the world about it !

ah, I forgot about it...
Carla still needs lots of fixing (specially LV2), so I'm not worried about this too much yet.
Feel free to contact him though, but he's probably busy with Ubuntu logos now...

You were right, he is way too busy right now but he gave me the simple advice to simplify the UI to get the icon.
And here are my two proposal :

carla.png (16.61 KiB) Viewed 2659 times

You can see the 128x128, 32x32 and 16x16 version. I'm not an icon designer so that is not the icon of the year, but tell me if you think it fits the app. I can send the svg on request.
16x16 is blurry but I think it can be fixed.

[DoosC]

OK, so here is an updated version for Carla and a proposal for Claudia :

carla+claudia.png (22.29 KiB) Viewed 2469 times

[thorgal]

@falkTX,

Just git-pulled the code.
I have to add

Code: Select all

-ldl

to the linker to get src/carla/carla-bridge-lv2-gtk compiled (linked).

EDIT: problem at runtime

Code: Select all

~/src/cadence$ python src/carla.py 
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "src/carla.py", line 13, in <module>
    import ui_carla, ui_carla_about, ui_carla_database, ui_carla_edit, ui_carla_parameter, ui_carla_plugin
  File "/disk1/src/cadence/src/ui_carla.py", line 137, in <module>
    import icons_rc
ImportError: No module named icons_rc

[thorgal]

Please post the directory content of <cadence-root>/src/ and your system specs.

no need, I git-pulled and built again and things are running just fine ... except that LV2 plugins are still not detected. I thought you had enabled them (?)

[spm_gl]

JACK Input -> Plugin Processing -> Dry/Wet -> Volume -> Balance -> Panning

Mixing balance and panning doesn't make sense. To simplify things, you could use a panning/balance strip like Cubase does, with two handles for a stereo signal, and one for a mono signal.
http://media.soundonsound.com/sos/dec04 ... ase3.l.jpg

[spm_gl]

My current implementation does the panning of left and right channels, like this:
Left Knob - full left -> All sound will go to left output
Left Knob - middle -> Sound balanced between left and right outputs
Left Knob - full right -> All sound will go to right output
(Same for Right Knob, just reversed the process)

That is basically correct, only that you need to make the signal around 3dB softer in the middle position. Your screenshot and description had balance and pan at once. You'll need one knob for mono sources, and two for stereo sources, but now both at the same time.
Actually, I doubt that panning makes sense in a plugin rack, because that would normally be done in a mixer (i.e. DAW)

[spm_gl]

The strange thing is that moving both Balance knobs to the left will still make audio in both stereo channels. Is this intended?

No, that sounds very wrong. Probably somewhat related to:

I did some testing and I did not get any louder audio with both knobs at the middle...

Looks like you need to revise your panning algorithm. It appears not to be doing anything at all. Simple test: Find a plugin where you can mute one channel, and pan the other all the way from one side to the other. I can't test it, 'cause Carla still refuses to find any plugin on my system.
Once you're certain it works as intended, read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_law