AV-Linux - Realtime Kernel - XFCE Tweak - SoundFont

What other apps and distros do you use to round out your studio?

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Zonk
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AV-Linux - Realtime Kernel - XFCE Tweak - SoundFont

Post by Zonk »

AV-Linux is a lovingly and great Linux-Audio Distribution. Nearly all what you need (proper wine configuration 32/64 bit too) is preinstalled. It will be perfect with following tweaks:

1. Replace Liquorix Kernel

Unfortunately AV-Linux has lost its real time kernel. I tried the new Liquorix Kernel and was very disappointed :? . I recorded at 128 frames/2 Puffers/ 44100 Hz and got lots of x-runs with this new Liqorix kernel - unusable! It is impossible to record at less than 256 Frames which is far from real-time. Sure, they have good (security?) reasons for the Liquorix kernel - but Liquorix is no option for real-time-recording (same with low-latency-kernels in Ubuntu Studio). I changed Liquorix kernel to an rt-kernel (via synaptic) and it works fluently at 128 Frames again (Reaperlinux project 40 tracks, lots of vst effects and so on - usb audio interface from Behringer).

2. Replace Openbox, go back to XFCE

AV Linux comes with a poorly Openbox desktop which is hard to use. Unfortunately the new open box theme comes with a biǵ ugly drop mousepointer which makes it impossible to work precisely. I tried to change this drop mousepointer but I found no way to do this in open box. So ... I installed xfdesktop and changed open box in autostart to xfdesktop (just insert xfdesktop). After restart XFCE will be back and everything will be fine.

3. Change SoundFonts

Unfortunately, the old Roland sf2 gm-soundfond (approx 150 mb) is not included in current AV-Linux. The included sf2 soundfont (approx 5 mb) sounds horrible in comparison. In old linux distributions you can find the old one under use/share/soundfonts or user/share/sounds).

After this tweaks everything will be perfect! :D

Send me a message if you have any Questions.

Zonk!
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Re: AV-Linux - Realtime Kernel - XFCE Tweak - SoundFont

Post by GMaq »

1. Yep, Debian and Debian Backports provide secure RT kernels, Most users on most hardware get along fine with Liquorix. As made clear in the User Manual one Kernel cannot fit all scenarios.. If you have nVidia Video hardware your opinion on this might also be different..

2. Openbox is not great or poor... it is Openbox and it behaves like Openbox, by removing xfwm and xfdesktop it allows most of the goodness of XFCE4 at about 100Mb of RAM savings. As many people like it as dislike it so probably not going to change any time soon.. Mouse pointer is the same... 'ugly' to you and quite attractive and unique to others, VERY easy to change in the XFCE4 settings.. :wink:

3. This is exactly what Package Managers are for..
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Re: AV-Linux - Realtime Kernel - XFCE Tweak - SoundFont

Post by Zonk »

Hello GMaq,

of course not all users need very low latency therefore Liquorix can be sufficient.

I dont want to judge about Openbox. It is poorly in my Opinion because it has no desktop included. It is hard to work without a desktop for me.

Unfortunately it is not possible to get rid of this "ugly mousepointer" in Openbox settings. If you change mousepointer in XFCE it has no effect to Openbox. I found no way to do this. If you know how - please do let me/us know. :!:

Thanks for your comment - have a great day! :)

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Re: AV-Linux - Realtime Kernel - XFCE Tweak - SoundFont

Post by GMaq »

Zonk wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 5:00 pm Hello GMaq,

of course not all users need very low latency therefore Liquorix can be sufficient.

I dont want to judge about Openbox. It is poorly in my Opinion because it has no desktop included. It is hard to work without a desktop for me.

Unfortunately it is not possible to get rid of this "ugly mousepointer" in Openbox settings. If you change mousepointer in XFCE it has no effect to Openbox. I found no way to do this. If you know how - please do let me/us know. :!:

Thanks for your comment - have a great day! :)

Zonk!
Did you change the mouse pointer theme and restart? It will not change permanently until a new session.
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Re: AV-Linux - Realtime Kernel - XFCE Tweak - SoundFont

Post by Zonk »

I changed themes in Openbox but mousepointer remains always the same on all themes after restart. Anyway .... I have XFCE again now and can change to various mousepointers.

Thanks GMaq! :)
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Re: AV-Linux - Realtime Kernel - XFCE Tweak - SoundFont

Post by sunrat »

Certainly not all kernels suit all people. I tried Debian's RT kernel and it was noticeably worse than Liquorix. But I have a Nvidia card and 4K monitor which need the Nvidia driver so I had to run a secret tweak to get it installed. :twisted:
I also run a couple of Intel-specific tweaks which help to gain a little extra which are not default in AVL-MXE. Obviously as not everyone has Intel CPUs.

As GMaq said, soundfonts are installable, desktops are installable. I prefer to start with less and build up rather than start with vast amounts of things I don't need.
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Re: AV-Linux - Realtime Kernel - XFCE Tweak - SoundFont

Post by Zonk »

Hello sunrat,

RT kernel seems to cause some problems to Nvidia card owners (I am AMD user). If you can reveal your secret tweak, it will surely be of help for Nvidia users.

Musicians have sometimes installation scenarios without internet connection (rehearsal rooms far from home eg) so it is not good to rely too much on repositories. Installation with best music tools available for free should work out of the box especially in regards of Linux distros for music production. It's a pity that best SoundFont is not included from the start.

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Re: AV-Linux - Realtime Kernel - XFCE Tweak - SoundFont

Post by sunrat »

Zonk wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:46 amRT kernel seems to cause some problems to Nvidia card owners (I am AMD user). If you can reveal your secret tweak, it will surely be of help for Nvidia users.
Just set this environment before installing nvidia-driver package:

Code: Select all

export IGNORE_PREEMPT_RT_PRESENCE=1
Tested on Debian Bullseye but it didn't make the RT kernel work better than Liquorix for me. YMMV
Practically the only reason it won't normally build on RT is because the build script checks and won't allow it. :roll:

Manjaro has an nvidia compatible RT kernel in their repo, not sure about Arch. I tried Manjaro with it but no performance improvement so didn't switch from Debian with Liquorix. Again YMMV.
If I were building a new system today I'd almost certainly go with an AMD graphics card, or even just use the built-in one in the CPU if I wasn't gaming.
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Re: AV-Linux - Realtime Kernel - XFCE Tweak - SoundFont

Post by Zonk »

Wow ... impressive! Although I am on AMD I'd like to thank you in the name of Nvidia owners! :!:

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Re: AV-Linux - Realtime Kernel - XFCE Tweak - SoundFont

Post by sunrat »

Zonk wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 6:45 am Wow ... impressive! Although I am on AMD I'd like to thank you in the name of Nvidia owners! :!:
Thanks actually due to @tramp who posted it in these forums last year - viewtopic.php?p=132670#p132670
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Re: AV-Linux - Realtime Kernel - XFCE Tweak - SoundFont

Post by j_e_f_f_g »

Zonk wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:21 pm The included sf2 soundfont (approx 5 mb) sounds horrible
I'm working on a compact, but high-quality General MIDI sample set as an LV2 plugin. (It will be notably better quality than the Roland set, which is essentially the waveforms from the old Roland SC-7. Microsoft licensed that from Roland for Win95, and it's the same GM soundfont still used in Windows to this day). Additionally, there is an engine to play the set, and a GM MIDI File (SMF) player. When I finish this, playing midi files on Linux will be as easy as on Windows and MacOs. (Just double-click on the midi file, and listen). The only difference will be that it will sound better (more like a roland fantom, yamaha motif, akai s1000, etc. which is 3 generations beyond the sc-7). It also will sound better than sf2 GM soundfonts loaded into fluid synth.

I just need to finish the docs, then it's off to Michael Willis for testing. After that, I'll get ahold of Glen and try to convince him to make enough room on the AV Linux image to include this. It's really important that an OS be able to play standard MIDI files with one double-click, and do so with a sound quality at least as good as today's median professional MIDI hardware units. Even if it's necessary to remove some of the other LV2 plugins to make room, I think it's worth it to get easy-to-use, out-of-the-box, high quality GM playback.

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Re: AV-Linux - Realtime Kernel - XFCE Tweak - SoundFont

Post by scott.thomason »

Zonk wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:21 pm 1. Replace Liquorix Kernel
I've had a great experience using the Liquorix kernel on both Manjaro and Mint. I run at 64 x 3 @ 48000, and I get zero xruns. On my system, Cadence computes the latency at 1.3ms, and measuring with a physical cable and jack_delay gives me 8.5ms. You may just be missing some configuration tweaks.
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Re: AV-Linux - Realtime Kernel - XFCE Tweak - SoundFont

Post by Zonk »

Hello Jeffg,

thank you for you information in general and about your Backupband software in particular. I tried Backupband from the link but unfortunately I could not get it to work. Perhaps I am not smart enough or I need more time. I am going to have a new try on Backupband next weekend.

Backupband looks promising. It would be great to find your high quality GM-Soundset inside of next AVL Distribution.

Please keep us informed!

Zonk

j_e_f_f_g wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 9:41 am
Zonk wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:21 pm The included sf2 soundfont (approx 5 mb) sounds horrible
I'm working on a compact, but high-quality General MIDI sample set as an LV2 plugin. (It will be notably better quality than the Roland set, which is essentially the waveforms from the old Roland SC-7. Microsoft licensed that from Roland for Win95, and it's the same GM soundfont still used in Windows to this day). Additionally, there is an engine to play the set, and a GM MIDI File (SMF) player. When I finish this, playing midi files on Linux will be as easy as on Windows and MacOs. (Just double-click on the midi file, and listen). The only difference will be that it will sound better (more like a roland fantom, yamaha motif, akai s1000, etc. which is 3 generations beyond the sc-7). It also will sound better than sf2 GM soundfonts loaded into fluid synth.

I just need to finish the docs, then it's off to Michael Willis for testing. After that, I'll get ahold of Glen and try to convince him to make enough room on the AV Linux image to include this. It's really important that an OS be able to play standard MIDI files with one double-click, and do so with a sound quality at least as good as today's median professional MIDI hardware units. Even if it's necessary to remove some of the other LV2 plugins to make room, I think it's worth it to get easy-to-use, out-of-the-box, high quality GM playback.
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Re: AV-Linux - Realtime Kernel - XFCE Tweak - SoundFont

Post by j_e_f_f_g »

Zonk wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 12:52 pm I could not get BackupBand to work.
Are you running it on a 64-bit Linux? The executable in the zip is compiled for 64-bit. Also, did you right-click on the BackupBand icon, and select its Properties menu command, then check the box "allow executing as a program" under Permissions? Also, BackupBandNoGui should not be run before you use BackupBand to first configure the program's use. BackupBandNoGui should be run only from a command prompt window (or be launched by another program).

Except for those 2 operating system problems, BackupBand should display an error message if there's a problem. If you got an error message, tell me what it said, and I'll tell you how to fix it.

Follow the manual as it's like a tutorial to get up and running.

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Re: AV-Linux - Realtime Kernel - XFCE Tweak - SoundFont

Post by Zonk »

Hello Scott,

I'm glad to hear that you get along with Liquorix at this low latency values. How big are your projects? Do you usually have more than 20 tracks with some power consuming vst plugins too? I cant hardly believe ...

I have tried a few tweaks on different pc's and distributions over the last years with always the same result: Only RT-kernels were able to run on my machines below 256 frames (2 @ 41000) - no matter what I tried. Equipment seems to be secondary too.

I am a musician first so I need a system that just works without endless tweaking efforts. As a singer and guitarist I need to feel comfortable while recording. This is not possible above 128 frames (at least for me). Just changing a kernel (rt-kernels are available in Manjaro and AVL repos) is not that big effort in comparison to tweaking efforts on different parts.

I am a big fan of MANJARO too! Unfortunately LinuxReaper is not working under Manjaro (KDE and XFCE versions) recently so I switched back to AVL again. Reaper has disappeared from Manjaro Repos too. Do you (or anybody else) have a clue what has happened to Manjaro?

Thank you for your comment! :)

Zonk

scott.thomason wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 10:54 am
Zonk wrote: Tue Jun 21, 2022 3:21 pm 1. Replace Liquorix Kernel
I've had a great experience using the Liquorix kernel on both Manjaro and Mint. I run at 64 x 3 @ 48000, and I get zero xruns. On my system, Cadence computes the latency at 1.3ms, and measuring with a physical cable and jack_delay gives me 8.5ms. You may just be missing some configuration tweaks.
Last edited by Zonk on Wed Jun 22, 2022 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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