Why people don't like Unity and Ubuntu?

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Aleks
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Why people don't like Unity and Ubuntu?

Post by Aleks »

I've read here and there few rants about how people, especially musicians, don't like Unity. I really hated it too, when I tried it for the first time in 11.04 or something like that, but then I tried 12.04 2D and would really have to mess things up to get an Xrun, and I have an average desktop, on board card and all that. And then I wanted to upgrade to newer versions of Ubuntu, but 2D was abandoned, so I would always get back to 12.04 until I found out that 12.04 actually had a low latency kernel. So installed it instead of the generic one and boom, I didn't need no 2D anymore, no Xruns, it's stable.

So, why do I like unity? I'ts well organized, it looks good on my laptop. I read somewhere that Ubuntu Mate or something like that was "the best distro for laptop". But I would say that quite on the opposite, the unity would be the best choice for a small screen, those some 10mm saved in the top panel really make a difference, in my opinion.
Last edited by Aleks on Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Scary Hallo
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Re: Why people don't like Unity and Ubuntu?

Post by Scary Hallo »

I think it is also a matter of taste. I prefer KDE. On laptop and desktop. I think it's the most flexible DE.
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Re: Why people don't like Unity and Ubuntu?

Post by sysrqer »

Bloated, not particularly stable, too heavy on resources, doesn't respect your privacy (even if you can turn it off or isn't the default any more, it was and is for a lot of people), just a mess in general to use, support is like the blind leading the blind.
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Re: Why people don't like Unity and Ubuntu?

Post by Aleks »

@Scarry Hallo

Well, that's true too, but I also think it has to do with habit and being used to something. For example, in Unity I like very much how are things laid out on the top panel, I can start or stop jack simply by clicking the Cadence tray icon on it, change the audio inputs and outputs by calling the sound menu from the Ubuntu volume indicator tray icon. That is one of the main reasons I can't get used to KDE, because when I tried it, I couldn't do simple things as that.

If I need to start some app, I just press the windows key and type few letters of the app's name. I mean, it's pure convenience and practicality, and yet I stumbled upon some posts here and there on the net about how Ubuntu and especially with Unitiy DE is not practical for musicians, or I remember even somebody wrote that Ubuntu wasn't a real Linux because it reminded him on Windows too much, which was funny to me, because, coming from a Windows world, quite the opposite, to me for example Gnome or Cinnamon looks a bit more like Windows, while the Unity is its own thing.
Last edited by Aleks on Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Aleks
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Re: Why people don't like Unity and Ubuntu?

Post by Aleks »

sysrqer wrote:Bloated, not particularly stable, too heavy on resources, doesn't respect your privacy (even if you can turn it off or isn't the default any more, it was and is for a lot of people), just a mess in general to use, support is like the blind leading the blind.
Why do you say it's bloated? On the contrary, to me it looks very minimalistic, and is stable if you configure your system right.

I do turn off that Amazon thing after every clean install, and also the option to show recently opened files in the lens. Now, about privacy, in my opinion, once you are on the net and start using Google and Facebook, your privacy has taken a long, long walk.
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Re: Why people don't like Unity and Ubuntu?

Post by sysrqer »

Aleks wrote: Why do you say it's bloated? On the contrary, to me it looks very minimalistic, and is stable if you configure your system right.
Depends what you're referring to. As a distro I would definitely say it is bloated. As a DE I say it is bloated because it provides quite a few features I would never want to use and don't need to be there.
Aleks wrote: I do turn off that Amazon thing after every clean install, and also the option to show recently opened files in the lens.
This is irrelevant, it shouldn't be sending that information anywhere in the first place.
Aleks wrote: Now, about privacy, in my opinion, once you are on the net and start using Google and Facebook, your privacy has taken a long, long walk.
That's cool that you have an opinion about it. By no means does that justify a distro violating your privacy even more so though. Interestingly though, your statement would logically place Canonical amongst the likes of Google and Facebook.
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Re: Why people don't like Unity and Ubuntu?

Post by Aleks »

You mean like, apps that you don't use? Like what, few games and stuff like that? But you can always remove those, can't you?

As a DE per se, I really don't get it why it is bloated - there is a top panel, side panel which I guess most users set to autohide, so most of the time you don't see it unless you need it, and that's pretty much it. And as I said, that unity concept saves some space, because when the apps are maximized, they are integrated in the top panel.

Now, on the privacy, I agree about that that your OS shouldn't be gathering information from the user, but all systems do to some extent, aren't they? That's how you get the updates.

All I was saying, if somebody want's a full privacy, stay off net and don't use smartphones.
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Re: Why people don't like Unity and Ubuntu?

Post by Aleks »

Now that you mention, then why you use KDE for your KXStudio, FalkTX?
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Markus
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Re: Why people don't like Unity and Ubuntu?

Post by Markus »

Hey Aleks,
  • It steals my menu bars
    I have a 2880x1660 screen so no need to put windows menus to the most far away position on screen. I hate to play aiming games while at work.
  • I love my privacy
    Canonical is just another ordinary company trying to make more money. No need for arguing with smart phones, google or facebook - I don't use any of them. And even if you want to measure everything with the same yardstick - I feel like things are much more complex than "if you have internet access you can run around naked, too"
  • I like to use menus
    I don't remember all programs names every time so I like to click on menu -> category -> program. Or menu -> favorite. Sometimes I like to use your preferred workflow - opening a menu by hotkey and start typing the programs name. All that is offered by the whiskermenu in XFCE. What I really hate is getting lost in a click baiting "user interface" which needs about a dozen interactions to open a program whose name I don't have at hand. And what I never need is to have 3/4 of the screen filled up with the latest videos I've been watching while trying to find a program.
  • I have anything I need - no need to offer anything else to me
    I don't look at advertisings because I'm able to find things on my own. So no need to show uninstalled programs of the same category inside my programs menu - it messes things up with useless information.
  • I need functional programs
    Gnome3 with GTK3 and the tools of the Unity desktop have one thing in common: they are designed for being "easy to use". It's kind of the Apple experience for me - the main task might be easier, but don't try to do anything else than that. I need my computer to get work done. So when a DE's target is to strip as much functionality as can from the users interface to have "a sane and clean" visual experience it's the opposite of what I need.
There are lots of other things that get in my way while trying to use Unity in a productive environment - but that's my personal opinion, no need for flamewars.

After Gnome2 (which was the most mature experience in my opinion), Mate (which unfortunately didn't become usable over two years while giving it a chance), Gnome3 (hahaha wait what? JavaScript for ... a Desktop?!) and KDE4 (too much bugs for my taste) I've been falling in love with XFCE4 which is heading in Gnome2 direction. I have to tweak it a lot but the amount of customization is far from anything I have to do to any other environment for getting really useful.

As I said - it's my personal opinion and not meant to be the enlightenment of the world. Because what I really love is a) freedom of choice and b) diversity.

Cheers, Markus.
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Markus
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Re: Why people don't like Unity and Ubuntu?

Post by Markus »

Hey falkTX,

thanks for the clarification, seems they're progressing.

Cheers, Markus.
Aleks
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Re: Why people don't like Unity and Ubuntu?

Post by Aleks »

Markus wrote:Hey Aleks,
And even if you want to measure everything with the same yardstick - I feel like things are much more complex than "if you have internet access you can run around naked, too"
Oh no, quite the opposite. Actually, I think that if you are connected on the internet, you should at all costs avoid running around naked, unless you are an exhibitionist. And by all means, put a tape over your webcam and turn off your microphone when not in use! :D Canonical apparently is a money making company, I don't know exactly how they operate, but the decision to involve Amazon products' proposal on the basis of user's interests in the lens was obviously a business driven move, terrible by ethic standards, I think everybody agrees on that.

Now, I'm not trying to start a flaming war, I'm just commenting on one that is already happening, kind of a religious attitude that everything in Linux should be Spartan-like in order to be Linux. Well, it doesn't have to. If you configure your system right and organize your workflow, Ubuntu Unity can be very effective working machine and environment, but that also depends on how you work.

For example, the menus issue; I actually like the Unity concept, because I don't use menus much, or when I use them, like in Ardour or in a browser, the app is maximized. I heavily rely on the Alt+Tab to switch between apps, Ctrl+Alt+ arrow keys to switch between virtual desktops, and in general I use keyboard shortcuts a lot, that's how I work, and I found that by using this modular approach the whole OS and all the apps can form a whole, or, well - unity :)

And then some little nuances that are there. For example - the touchpad. In Windows (I haven't tried this on other Linux distro's) when I want to scroll, I have to go to the edge of the touch pad. Here, one finger is pointing the mouse arrow, and two fingers for scrolling. One finger tap for confirming, opening etc. two finger tap for opening the context menu, two times tapping and dragging for selecting, I mean, the touchpad is practically a part of the keyboard, I don't even use the buttons for left and right click on it.

And mind you, I rely heavily on Ubuntu for my professional work too, almost exclusively. Windows is too stiff for me. I've also tried the new Windows 10, and I can say that actually Ubuntu is everything that Windows tries to be.

P.S.
I don't remember all programs names every time so I like to click on menu -> category -> program. Or menu -> favorite.
But you have that in Unity too. It's dash/application/category/program. And favorite or actually recently used are already there in the dash.
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Re: Why people don't like Unity and Ubuntu?

Post by Markus »

Now, I'm not trying to start a flaming war, I'm just commenting on one that is already happening
I didn't want to shelter that you're heading for a flamewar - if that's the impression my posting causes I'm sorry.
But you have that in Unity too.
But I'm a happy XFCE user. As I said - there are lots of different aspects I don't like about unity, having to move the pointer about 30" on the screen with lots of focusing and aiming in-between (every inch multiplies the aiming error) to open a categorized program is just one of them. Please note that I was talking about the user interface, not about Ubuntu in general - which makes things worse from my POV.

Btw some of my business partners might think that my Debian/XFCE desktop is a cute and funny bling-bling comic rather than a usable user interface/distribution while they're using - no desktop, menu, environment or any binary packages at all - i3 on Gentoo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wx0eNaGzAZU). But I would never ever try to argue for using any other UI or distro than their favorite and so wouldn't they - that's what people call respect. But we talked about our opinions of course which made us all a little more aware of the alternatives available.
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Re: Why people don't like Unity and Ubuntu?

Post by ssj71 »

The first thing that turned me off was the lack of menus. Install Simon Tatham's puzzle pack and you get something like 30 different puzzles that I like to peruse and play. Sorting through them was a pain in unity. I switched to XFCE. Ironically I now use dmenu in i3wm for everything so I don't have a menu anymore. But now I wouldn't go back to unity because it doesn't tile.

Ubuntu, there are a few things I don't love about it (notably the MIR decision), but nothing enough to stop me using it yet. I just make sure I have the kxstudio ppas and I'm happy as a lark with it.
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Re: Why people don't like Unity and Ubuntu?

Post by DepreTux »

I don't like Ubuntu because it doesn't follow standards, and they don't care about compatibility with other distros. That can be seen in the choice of kernel version, the development of MIR, Unity, and probably in other respects too.

And as far as DEs go, I only tried Unity when it first came out, only because I liked the idea of having my menubar integrated into the panel, but it was too buggy. I'm sure they fixed it by now, but since then I switched to dwm (alternating with openbox + lxpanel) and now I can't stand my desktop eating any valuable resources.

When someone asks me for a good distro to try linux, I recommend linux mint so that they don't have to shift desktop paradigms, but still get the huge software and support base.
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Re: Why people don't like Unity and Ubuntu?

Post by Scary Hallo »

I'm gonna have a look on LXDE-Qt, when it is ready.
http://wiki.lxde.org/en/LXDE-Qt
It looks promising to me.
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