Crowdfunding for Carla possible? (Audio-plugin host)

[Alwaysanewb]

I I wasn't broke myself right now I'd just donate. It's possible I'm not sure how many different people use and are looking for an app like carla. You might just want to list it as a kick starter for kxstudio because a ton of people in the linux music comunnity know what that is. Seeing as carla is pretty much part of kxstudio it wouldn't be lying either.

[Alwaysanewb]

I think the name is fine just list it like Carla( linux audio pluggin host) So everyone knows what it does. Make sure to explain everything it does too. I would list it for as low as possible on kickstart just because I would be afraid of not reching my goal.

[i2productions]

Put me down for a few $US!

[varpa]

I think Carla is great and I hope you find some way to complete it be it with crowdsourcing or donations. It strikes me as a bit ambitious to try to support Windows/Mac and might greatly increase the complexity of the project. Would you be expecting the Windows/Mac user to connect via Jack (and if not, how?). There are many more potential users/donors, but also much more competition so I don't know if you would actually get much support on those platforms to compensate for the considerably additional difficulty of supporting those platforms. You are doing such great work for linux audio I hate to see you dissipate that working on these other platforms (though of course, you are perfectly free to do that if you choose).

I am also slightly confused by your plans for Carla. As a general plugin rack supporting all linux plugin types and Windows VSTs I think it is a great concept. You also mention support for gig, sfz, and sf2 files which puzzles me - you intend to put a sampler into Carla? Since we already have linuxsampler I'm not sure I see this as a very high priority. You also mentioned having a sequencer which again seems to me a diversion from the plugin rack concept. I encourage you to focus on getting full functionality as a plugin rack working first before adding sampler and sequencer support which I think all already well served by other linux apps.

Last, an extremely small comment on the carla design - currently there is a button which is illuminated with a red circle when the plugin is active. I tend to think of red as indicating "stop" or "off" and would prefer a green circle to indicate a plugin is on (ok, rather nitpicky).

I just made a small contribution to kxstudio to help with your carla effort.

[Alwaysanewb]

I looked at it and I didn't understand the pricing really well. From what I gather it is free so you really wouldn't have anything to lose. I think It would cost you 25 dollars for a wire transfer if you made money and at most 9% on what you make which theses days seems like a high percent but in a larger scheme of things seems like a pretty good deal. I looked into kick starter once but I don't think it's really for musicians and my recordings and rythem isn't quite good enough to where I could do something like that with a clear concious. You have a reputaion of quailty work and regular maintence of everything you have created so If I was you I would definatly do it and with indigogo it seems you really wouldn't have much to loss but pride and pride is free so I would say do it. I'm sub poverty and I would even try to scrape up a few pesos.

[wolftune]

falkTX, as you know I am working on my own entire fundraising system. It is ambitious and works completely differently from all these options. But it will not be ready for many months probably.

In the mean time, I intend to do a thorough study of all the existing platforms. There are more than 600 different crowdfunding systems.

My feelings right now, if you need funding TODAY: I urge you to consider avoiding IndieGogo and Kickstarter et al. They are not supportive of FLOSS particularly, and they take a good chunk from you. The best and most respectful existing system is freedomsponsors.org They are a bounty-style, pay to get things done approach. They have a system where you can list the project specifically, the work to do, and you can accept partial payment as work gets done. In this system, people pledge to pay you for doing work. It is working pretty well so far. And I admire them most of all the existing options! Please consider that over the generic commercial things!

Fact is, I'm pessimistic about all of these options, they all have problems. I am trying to address that in my system. But it's a lot of work. Please do what you need to do for now

[GMaq]

Hi,

This is a very ambitious idea, I would gladly contribute to crowdfunding and see Carla get fully finished and functional. Count me in for a donation no matter what.

Questions...

Would a universal Linux self contained binary be available (ie the user just needs X-windows and JACK/ALSA kind of like the Ardour bundles or linuxDSP standalones etc.) ? IMHO this really opens it up for Linux users of ALL distros new and old and would broaden your potential user base beyond just the latest greatest Ubuntu and Arch versions. I'm sorry but the constantly shifting sands of QT/Python/GTK/ etc etc etc really are killing Linux for serious long-term Professional consideration in Audio production.

Also I personally am looking for a reliable host for Live keyboard performance and I want to use multiple plugins on different MIDI channels (ie Pianoteq, as well as LV2 synths and GIGs SF2's). I am astounded that other than using Soundfonts only in something like Qsynth/Linuxsampler there is nothing like this on Linux that doesn't have some severe limitation (even current Carla won't host Pianoteq) or is unreliable.

I encourage you to crowdfund Carla, as I've always said the fact that you aren't making at least a partial living off donations from the HUGE number of Ubuntu/KXStudio users is a crime!

[i2productions]

That's why I think, if this happens, binaries will have to be commercialized.
Source code is all there, and always will be, but Windows, Mac and Linux binaries should be paid for (with a lower price for Linux).

Sounds a bit convoluted. Here's my take. I enjoy Carla for a select number of things. It is a very nice, and if I can ever get my Rpi mini-studio project off the ground I would like to include it in that. But that's where it ends for me. Utilizing Ardour3, there are only a few functions that Carla actually makes easier for me. I can't wait to take on your challenge for the next Tunestorm of using nothing but Carla, but if I were asked to pay for a binary I would refuse(even if I didn't know how to compile the source.)

I'm all for making contributions for all the great work you've put into KXStudio, and I'd donate to get Carla working better, but for me at least, it's not a neccesary enough tool to go and "purchase" it. Just my two cents. Keep up the great work as always!

[wolftune]

I see a problem with this though. If people can get the app for free later, why even fund the project?
That's why I think, if this happens, binaries will have to be commercialized.

AIG. Did you actually read the stuff on our site when I sent you the invite?? (please go read it! you need to understand these things before you make a decision about how to proceed, it will help you philosophically think about the issues)

There are so many software options out there today. What you want is as many users as possible. It does you no good to make it any harder for users to start using your software. Pay-for-access is a broken (but persistent) model. We are working on solving all of this, and the solution is NOT to be restrictive like this. Your question: "why should they pay if they can get it free?" is very simple: because they want it to exist and to keep going. Our system solves the freeloader dilemma. Sorry we're not ready yet , but the answer is to do the right work to appeal to people's duty and make funding as easy as possible and show them that they are making improvements possible. It is not the right strategy to make binaries pay-only.

[GMaq]

Would a universal Linux self contained binary be available (ie the user just needs X-windows and JACK/ALSA kind of like the Ardour bundles or linuxDSP standalones etc.) ?

Of course! Haven't I done so before?

I am very grateful that you have done this before absolutely and just mentioned it to hope you will continue

Of course, AVLinux is my friend so neither it or you will ever need to pay anything to access the binaries.
Same as general Linux distros, they just use the source code and build the app.

I appreciate that and all the great work you have shared with me/AV, however in the event Carla binaries became 'commercialized' I would be open to discussing any arrangement you think necessary to distribute the binaries or whatever, obviously a lot has to happen between now and then.

[DoosC]

Hey FalkTX,

I've both given money (through donation) and time (through my humbles icons) and I think it could work but would take time, a thing that you unfortunately can't seem to afford right now.

As one says : "slow and steady wins the race".

Maybe you should think a little bit less about Carla and a little bit more about you... I mean what's the hurry ? As you pointed out, Carla already works quite well for such a young app. If you think long term, the app will go well if you go well too.

So why not releasing the pressure a little bit ? You do not owe anything to anyone. We owe you.
Maybe you should first find a job (google and the like must be dying for a gifted devs like you) that might turns out to be great and gives you resources. At the same time you could start bounties at FreedomSponsors to measure users interest. Then you could advertise your app to plugin addicts (like at KVR or something) and then see how Wolftune's alternative shapes and if it is something that suits you.

Then if everything goes well, you could consider adding big stuffs to Carla and tease your user base with things like midi integration (which reminds me a bit of Loomer Sequent) and things like that.
I understand that users (and also you obviously) would like to see Carla do all the crazy amazing stuff in 6 months or less, but if it takes 1, 2 or even 3 years to get there, what is wrong with that ?
I think that Wolftune has a point about scaring the user base.
Would you prefer Carla to be almost abandonware in 2 year or the linux audio killer app in 5 years ?
I know that what I'm saying is bit of a caricature but it is to have you think well about your strategy and your long terms plan, not only for the next few months.

Anyhow I think you have done real great until now and that you have the potential to do even better !
Good luck and keep up the good work !

[wolftune]

I'll say it again: with price for binaries, you risk reducing your user base compared to what it would otherwise be. That's not good for business. If you really like this direction, I suggest: follow the REAPER model for the Mac/Win binaries; i.e. explicitly say that it is not gratis, and everyone needs to pay to use it, but don't actually stop them from using it. You want as many users as possible. You can still make it clear that it is only a trial until they pay. Those who don't pay, many of them would never pay anyway, and you get more attention if you get more users.

[Heavy Duty]

Look at this guy trying to profit from open source software, hawking his wares on the forum.

[wolftune]

Free-as-in-libre! Not free-as-in-gratis (although gratis may actually be good for maximizing users and also more just).

Message to Heavy Duty: tone fails to translate to text.

Anyway, I won't go into details but the goal is to have as much money flowing as possible within FLOSS. We want people paid. That's what I'm working on achieving.

[nils]

Look at this guy trying to profit from open source software, hawking his wares on the forum.

This is not even about making profit. This, as most open source projects, is about minimizing the losses.