We need a Linux Music Standard

What other apps and distros do you use to round out your studio?

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Kott
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Re: We need a Linux Music Standard

Post by Kott »

j_e_f_f_g wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:40 am Context, man.

I'm talking to, and about, developers of linux music software. If the issue of making it easier for users to get music app binaries is to be improved, then devs are the ones to do it. Distro packagers are overtaxed and falling behind. Users lack the skills, and typically the inclination, to do it. The ball's in the devs' court.
So then you talking about me also.

If someone is incompetent to use automatic builds then just should leave it to maintainers. Many devs uses GH Actions, OBS, Launchpad to distribute their apps.
OBS, Copr, Launchpad provides repositories, so user will get updates as well.

AVLinux is the Debian stable, just build your app for Debian wherever you want.
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Re: We need a Linux Music Standard

Post by merlyn »

Fantasy : When surveyed nine out of ten Windows users said "You know I'd gladly use Linux if it wasn't for that pesky ease-of-use gap. That well known ease-of-use gap, virtually insurmountable with normal methods. The same ease-of-use gap miraculously overcome by anyone with a working Linux system".

Reality : When surveyed nine out of ten Windows users said "Linux, what's that?".
The ultimate hidden truth of the world is that we make it, and could just as easily make it differently.
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Re: We need a Linux Music Standard

Post by Michael Willis »

merlyn wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:13 amnine out of ten Windows users
Probably more like 999 out of 1000, but I agree with your point. I like Linux, but I've given up trying to evangelize it.
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Re: We need a Linux Music Standard

Post by GMaq »

Michael Willis wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:05 pm
merlyn wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:13 amnine out of ten Windows users
Probably more like 999 out of 1000, but I agree with your point. I like Linux, but I've given up trying to evangelize it.
The general public just gets a 'device' with an OS on it whether it's a smartphone, tablet, Chromebook, laptop or whatever, most people don't even think about how the OS got there or even know that it is something that is installed (or uninstallable) they just select the OS they want at purchase time and stick with it for better or worse.. If they don't like the OS most people just throw it away and buy something from the other team without even contemplating the question of 'is there something else I could put on THIS device..?'

A funny paradox to me is if you were to look at the demographics of most of these Linux common interest-based User forums you would would find an overwhelming majority (of course not all) of the members are middle aged male Gen-X'ers and latter period Boomers with a smattering of Millennials and Gen-Z's... You would also find a high percentage who work in some sphere of the computer industry whether it's full blown developing, IT or maintenance so the idea of taking the screws out of the computer case and opening it or creating and booting a USB key is neither daunting or foreign.. The paradox to me is that the Millennials and Gen-Z's who were raised from infancy with computers and devices seem to a large extent to have virtually no innate curiosity about how the devices constantly in-hand actually work. I have millennial and Gen-Z kids and neither they nor their friend group have any interest in how their phones or iPads/computers work internally, sure they are extremely adept and lightning fast at using the applications and figuring out how new ones work but the disconnect from the mechanical physical side of the devices is very puzzling and interesting to me as an observer, this trend by age demographic will most likely show up in the statistics and numbers of new adopters of Linux... I think we may already be seeing it in the puzzling sinking popularity numbers of Ubuntu across the board which was universally known as the first place people curious about Linux coming from other OS's came to.. Sure things like Manjaro are also quite User-friendly but I think we have a lot of people already within Linuxdom simply trying different things out (ie trying Arch after a few years of Ubuntu etc.) but I wonder if there are as many people trying Linux for the first time as there were even 5 years ago..?
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Re: We need a Linux Music Standard

Post by Gps »

Michael Willis wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:05 pm
merlyn wrote: Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:13 amnine out of ten Windows users
Probably more like 999 out of 1000, but I agree with your point. I like Linux, but I've given up trying to evangelize it.
I also agree, but looking at this from a gamer perspective, things are changing.

More and more gamers have at least heard from Linux.

Speaking for most gamers, at the end of the day the only thing they care for, is Linux faster? (more and stable fps)

In theory Linux should be faster, but in real life, most games are optimized for windows. :(

I am keeping an eye out for the steam deck. I will not buy one myself, but I still have some hope this will help change things.

How many people had even heard or Arch (outside this forum), before the steam deck ?

Not to happy about proton and such though, I would prefer native Linux ports for games.
On the bright side, these days most games can be played on Linux.

I have still have some hope windows will loose its desktop dominance.
On about all other area Linux has already beaten windows.
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Re: We need a Linux Music Standard

Post by sjzstudio »

I don't have any technical insight as I'm not a developer. I'm not even a Linux expert. I'm just a simple music maker. Semi-professional.

The way I see it, there doesn't seem to be much hope for you. Maybe someone will come up with an operating system environment where there is common understanding and striving for better. Because the simplest solution is usually the best. A perfectly round shape is what nature always strives for.

I read through the whole thread. I became quite sad. Even on such a simple matter, consensus cannot be reached. The initiator presented a well-founded and appropriate problem and a solution to it. A few started defending their square immediately. I go to bed and consider switching to C cassette four track recordings. :(
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Re: We need a Linux Music Standard

Post by glowrak guy »

There are limits placed in AVLinux to preserve system integrity against our tendency
to frivolously upgrade even extremely stable workstations.

But these limits are easy to reverse when the sirens-of-new sing of the greener grass over yonder :wink:

Some entrepreneurial soul familiar with recycling computers might enjoy a startup
selling refurbished turn-key linux musician systems based on AVLinux or similar.
With an ssd, audio interface, and graphics card in a stable OS, a lot of older hardware can perform well.
Without precluding new OEM hardware from being implemented.

The world is packed with hulufied netflixers who have no idea that producing music
in computers can be both fun and inexpensive. And I've found such people hard to
convince there is something to be gained by creating art versus consuming it.
Pop a top, munch and crunch, get fat, and die...

I think the only way to achieve a 'big time success', will require a robust Android distro
that scales effortlessly between phones, tablets, laptops, and desktops. To which the principals
learned and shared in AVLinux, Ubuntu Studio, Arch, Suse, Puppy, and Fedora, would be well applied.

Ultimately, I fear there are just too many big fish in little ponds, who will demand their linux zealotry of the moment
be the dominant view of whatever alternatives might arise to challenge winmac consortiums. So a third corporate entity
invading sacred market-share, free or commercial, is not going to be met with many open arms.
Mi dos centavos
My current youtube playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 8-_TqqZ7ij

The song title and cover art may be clues to song's theme. Also at Spotify. Hope you find a keeper! Artist name on good days, is: Franklin Cheney
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Re: We need a Linux Music Standard

Post by glowrak guy »

Sources of new linux users:
Those who can't afford a Mac
Those who found incompatibilities in windows software systems.
Those tired of corporate data gathering and security risks
Those starting new homes and needing a solid first computer experience.

But off they go to Office depot or Best Buy or Guitar Center,
to hear the same old marketing spiels...
My current youtube playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 8-_TqqZ7ij

The song title and cover art may be clues to song's theme. Also at Spotify. Hope you find a keeper! Artist name on good days, is: Franklin Cheney
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Re: We need a Linux Music Standard

Post by merlyn »

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post in this thread given jeff's rather baroque rules. I'm a simple end user, and as such may have no business posting in a thread by, for and primarily about developers.

However ...
sjzstudio wrote: Mon Aug 08, 2022 6:36 pm ... The initiator presented a well-founded and appropriate problem and a solution to it.
I don't think jeff presented a clear problem. The statement of the problem is : "The amount of hassle getting linux music software working has gotten out of hand. We need to reign in this monster." It may sound selfish but my system works, so I don't recognise this problem. It's a pretty vague statement.

This thread has gotten a bit de-railed onto the topic of attracting more users, which may or may not be what jeff had in mind. Honestly I don't know.

The solution is stated more clearly : "It needs to be more like MacOs and Windows in its ease of use." The concept of an ease-of-use gap is then liberally thrown around. Is the ease-of-use gap a problem for you? It's not a problem for me or anyone else posting on this thread. Quite why a person would want to spray their hard drive with binaries is beyond me, but you know, to each their own.

It seems like a solution without a problem.
Last edited by merlyn on Tue Aug 09, 2022 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: We need a Linux Music Standard

Post by nils »

My ease-of-use-gap is that plugin designers don't ship presets with their effects.

If you create an equalizer plugin, why is there not a bunch of presets "voice speaking male, voice singing female, piano pop, piano classical, guitar this, violin that"?
Same with compressors, reverbs etc.

And synth designers sometimes think everyone wants only glitchy, arpeggiated delay hells, while the first 100s presets should be leads, pads etc. recreating the sounds from the 70s to today.

I don't need a standardized systemd config across all distributions or whatever is meant with this thread. I want stuff that makes producing music faster.
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Re: We need a Linux Music Standard

Post by glowrak guy »

Modern preset browsers have somewhat ended the linear 'first one hundred' concept,
with sounds listed in categories. U-he will tell you it ain't east to develope.

Presets for effects would be a big help, but that is difficult to learn and provide without having
the actual (expensive) instruments, singers, and instrumentalists. A need that commercial developers
address in some cases. IK's Mixbox effects panel ships with 600+ pro presets addressing
important use cases. It's on sale now for $80, (14 pennies per preset) but is win/mac,
and exemplifies the expensive investment needed to compete in the software effects marketplace.

I suspect, given the fundamental of a supported audio interface, that a first-time use
of Reaper in a fresh install of AVLinux, would be easier than the same attempt in a new
win/mac computer with the same interface, and a daw of choice.

The range of audio interfaces and daws in linux is comparatively small, narrowing
the gateway, but not everyone has the need and cash for pro-tools, ableton and cubase etc.
We are fortunate to have some great alternatives.
Cheers
My current youtube playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 8-_TqqZ7ij

The song title and cover art may be clues to song's theme. Also at Spotify. Hope you find a keeper! Artist name on good days, is: Franklin Cheney
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