Linus Tech Tips Does Linux

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merlyn
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Linus Tech Tips Does Linux

Post by merlyn »

As far as I can make out Linus (the other one) was annoyed with Windows 11 and tried Linux. It was a good idea -- he didn't simply install it and give it a spin -- he attempted to use as it as his daily driver for a month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0506yDSgU7M

The title is not a good start -- "Linux hates me". Still, the channel has 14 million subscribers, so that's a lot of people exposed to at least the idea of Linux.
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Re: Linus Tech Tips Does Linux

Post by Largos »

Linus and his friend pretend not to know anything about Linux to show what the experience is of people who don't know anything about Linux when they switch from Windows.
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Re: Linus Tech Tips Does Linux

Post by merlyn »

Largos wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 4:04 pm Linus and his friend pretend not to know anything about Linux ...
You think Linus is less inept than he is making out? I didn't. He seems a double-click sort of guy. :)
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Re: Linus Tech Tips Does Linux

Post by sunrat »

merlyn wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 4:36 pm
Largos wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 4:04 pm Linus and his friend pretend not to know anything about Linux ...
You think Linus is less inept than he is making out? I didn't. He seems a double-click sort of guy. :)
Not sure if inept or just pretending to be a n00b to reflect what n00bs might do in their first encounter installing Linux. I watched that video a while back and not going to again, but recall he did some really stupid things while attempting to set it up.
As a regular on Debian forums, I see similar really stupid things posted with alarming regularity. "Read the manual? We don't need no steenkin' manual!" :lol:
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Re: Linus Tech Tips Does Linux

Post by bluzee »

I haven't had a windows install on one of my computers in almost 25 years. If you gave me a windows box with that same task list I suspect I would likely fail.

These guys were fun to watch. Their criticisms of manufacturers' lack of love for Linux on their devices were pretty spot on.

I really enjoyed his response to the old printer "just working". One thing I like is not having to toss out perfectly good hardware just because it's old.
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Re: Linus Tech Tips Does Linux

Post by Gps »

I liked his rant, about not being able to do root things on the desktop.

He did not know yet, that most Linux Distro do have this option.
OpenSUSE has two instances of dolphin, one is as superuser and wants the admin password when you start it (and click away a warning).

I do think he was rather new to Linux as a daily os, Usual Anthony of ltt does the Linux stuff.

Antony:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ua-d9OeUOg
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Re: Linus Tech Tips Does Linux

Post by bluzee »

Yes. That was a little odd since the other guy took about half a second to find "Open as Root" in nemo.
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Re: Linus Tech Tips Does Linux

Post by Largos »

The root thing is Dolphin specific. You used to be able to open Dolphin with a sudo command and edit root folders. This however could cause permission problems (apparently) so they disabled it. IIRC you also won't be able to do it in the upcoming Wayland display server. They (KDE) did it with Kate and they added polkit so instead you just open a file normally in a root directory and get a password prompt to write. This was meant to be put in Dolphin too but over four years later, still nothing. It was handled badly, they removed functionality before replacing it and it caused bad feeling.

Personally, I am a KDE user and if I want to do anything in root folders I will open up midnight commander. It's a great program but it's not ideal to be forced to something like that. Linus' point was that if someone new comes on and is following instructions on a help page to copy something to a root folder, then it's pretty much a brick wall and he's spot on. I hope KDE actually gets the kick up the backside to finally address it because a file manager that doesn't actually manage all the files is a bit embarrassing for them.

As for the channel overall, I am sure they know quite a lot about what they are doing and if they seem otherwise they are dumbing things to down to be relatable to their audience.
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Re: Linus Tech Tips Does Linux

Post by merlyn »

Largos wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:03 pm As for the channel overall, I am sure they know quite a lot about what they are doing and if they seem otherwise they are dumbing things to down to be relatable to their audience.
I'm not sure why you would want that to be true. Linus's friend has a lot less trouble than Linus, implying the mess ups were genuine. What Linus does is build Windows boxes for gaming. It appears knowing about that doesn't help with installing Linux .

At the root of the problems is impatience. With Windows it's click, click, click, done, without reading much or anything of dialogue boxes. Windows runs on train tracks that minimise the risk of borking the system. Linux does what you tell it, even if that borks the system.

Anyway, Linux is not ready for prime time.

I've seen a few things around the net and one idea was that if Linux is to go mainstream it must come pre-installed on retail hardware. I think it's likely that a lot of users use Windows or MacOS because that was what was installed on the machine when they bought it.

Although we, as Linux users, may think that for Linux to go mainstream it's required to get the latency down on USB drivers, or have slicker GUIs, to the majority of users those are not the reasons they stick with what they've got.
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Re: Linus Tech Tips Does Linux

Post by sunrat »

Largos wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:03 pm The root thing is Dolphin specific. You used to be able to open Dolphin with a sudo command and edit root folders. This however could cause permission problems (apparently) so they disabled it. IIRC you also won't be able to do it in the upcoming Wayland display server. They (KDE) did it with Kate and they added polkit so instead you just open a file normally in a root directory and get a password prompt to write. This was meant to be put in Dolphin too but over four years later, still nothing. It was handled badly, they removed functionality before replacing it and it caused bad feeling.
Nice KDE service menu from MX Linux which enables opening Dolphin as root with polkit, plus other functions - http://mxrepo.com/mx/repo/pool/main/r/r ... 21_all.deb
I use it in Bullseye. Works nicely.
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Re: Linus Tech Tips Does Linux

Post by Gps »

Largos wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:03 pm The root thing is Dolphin specific. You used to be able to open Dolphin with a sudo command and edit root folders. This however could cause permission problems (apparently) so they disabled it. IIRC you also won't be able to do it in the upcoming Wayland display server. They (KDE) did it with Kate and they added polkit so instead you just open a file normally in a root directory and get a password prompt to write. This was meant to be put in Dolphin too but over four years later, still nothing. It was handled badly, they removed functionality before replacing it and it caused bad feeling.

Personally, I am a KDE user and if I want to do anything in root folders I will open up midnight commander. It's a great program but it's not ideal to be forced to something like that. Linus' point was that if someone new comes on and is following instructions on a help page to copy something to a root folder, then it's pretty much a brick wall and he's spot on. I hope KDE actually gets the kick up the backside to finally address it because a file manager that doesn't actually manage all the files is a bit embarrassing for them.

As for the channel overall, I am sure they know quite a lot about what they are doing and if they seem otherwise they are dumbing things to down to be relatable to their audience.
Could it be openSUSE fixed this ? As long as I am on openSUSE, there were always two instances of dolphin.
( since version 9 if recall right, not called openSUSE yet, but just suse )

It also surprised me they did not list openSUSE as beginner friendly, but as intermediate.
But this might have to do with openSUSE out of the box being 100% opensource.

One of the first steps after install for openSUSE is to add the packman repository (not to be confused with the Arch pacman) :P

When people ask me if its hard to install Linux, I always ask do you know how to install windows yourself. (most can't)

For Linux to become more mainstream, it needs to be preinstalled.
Although I am 99% sure that most gamers (the LTT public) will install Linux if it performs better.

Which brings us to another known issue. Most games are not written for a generic pc, but for windows.
With all things equal games should work a tad faster on Linux. No Direct X overhead is one reason.

web.archive.org/web/20200504112412/http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/linux/faster-zombies/

( you need to copy paste the entire link, clicking only the last part wont work)
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Re: Linus Tech Tips Does Linux

Post by Largos »

merlyn wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:48 pm
Largos wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:03 pm As for the channel overall, I am sure they know quite a lot about what they are doing and if they seem otherwise they are dumbing things to down to be relatable to their audience.
I'm not sure why you would want that to be true. Linus's friend has a lot less trouble than Linus, implying the mess ups were genuine. What Linus does is build Windows boxes for gaming. It appears knowing about that doesn't help with installing Linux .

At the root of the problems is impatience. With Windows it's click, click, click, done, without reading much or anything of dialogue boxes. Windows runs on train tracks that minimise the risk of borking the system. Linux does what you tell it, even if that borks the system.

Anyway, Linux is not ready for prime time.

I've seen a few things around the net and one idea was that if Linux is to go mainstream it must come pre-installed on retail hardware. I think it's likely that a lot of users use Windows or MacOS because that was what was installed on the machine when they bought it.

Although we, as Linux users, may think that for Linux to go mainstream it's required to get the latency down on USB drivers, or have slicker GUIs, to the majority of users those are not the reasons they stick with what they've got.
I don't care whether it's true, I just don't believe someone who builds computers and has videos explaining this in detail is actually foxed by a 3gb file taking a long time to compress. If you can build computers, you are a not a "double click sort of guy".

Windows doesn't ask for your login password to do software update for a text editor, so I am not sure what's really "running on train tracks" here.

I agree that the pre-installed aspect is the main issue. For most, switching OS is taking a perfectly functioning OS and creating themselves a load of hassle they generally don't understand. Windows will likely die out, not because people switch from it but because Desktop computing as it is/was will die out, people will move on and Microsoft will likely be left behind like it was with phones.
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Re: Linus Tech Tips Does Linux

Post by Largos »

sunrat wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:38 pm
Largos wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 12:03 pm The root thing is Dolphin specific. You used to be able to open Dolphin with a sudo command and edit root folders. This however could cause permission problems (apparently) so they disabled it. IIRC you also won't be able to do it in the upcoming Wayland display server. They (KDE) did it with Kate and they added polkit so instead you just open a file normally in a root directory and get a password prompt to write. This was meant to be put in Dolphin too but over four years later, still nothing. It was handled badly, they removed functionality before replacing it and it caused bad feeling.
Nice KDE service menu from MX Linux which enables opening Dolphin as root with polkit, plus other functions - http://mxrepo.com/mx/repo/pool/main/r/r ... 21_all.deb
I use it in Bullseye. Works nicely.

Thanks! It's not a problem for me personally, it just should been fixed out the box ages ago, you shouldn't need to put an add on for the most basic usage
Gps wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:49 pm
Could it be openSUSE fixed this ? As long as I am on openSUSE, there were always two instances of dolphin.
( since version 9 if recall right, not called openSUSE yet, but just suse )

It also surprised me they did not list openSUSE as beginner friendly, but as intermediate.
But this might have to do with openSUSE out of the box being 100% opensource.

One of the first steps after install for openSUSE is to add the packman repository (not to be confused with the Arch pacman) :P

When people ask me if its hard to install Linux, I always ask do you know how to install windows yourself. (most can't)

For Linux to become more mainstream, it needs to be preinstalled.
Although I am 99% sure that most gamers (the LTT public) will install Linux if it performs better.

Which brings us to another known issue. Most games are not written for a generic pc, but for windows.
With all things equal games should work a tad faster on Linux. No Direct X overhead is one reason.

web.archive.org/web/20200504112412/http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/linux/faster-zombies/

( you need to copy paste the entire link, clicking only the last part wont work)
I don't know about openSuse. I did a search and found some people complaining about open as root being disabled at the time on their forum but I don't know if they've done anything since.

I have a manjaro install which I set up for gaming, Valve's compatibility layer is working great on most of the Windows games I own. They've really made big strides there.
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Re: Linus Tech Tips Does Linux

Post by bluzee »

I remember watching a Microsoft conference where they were talking about switching to Linux. I suspect eventually it will end up being something similar to Android. Between WSL and CBL-Mariner it would seem that they have taken quite a liking to Linux.
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Re: Linus Tech Tips Does Linux

Post by Linuxmusician01 »

Every time Microsoft comes with an update you get these sort of video's because people fear change. Win 11 can't be so different from Win 10 that you need to switch to something other than Windows. And if you can't update from Win 10: it'll be supported 'til 2025.

These sort of "new users" disappear as quickly as they appear.
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