advice for nvidia card sufferer

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ZestieBumwhig
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advice for nvidia card sufferer

Post by ZestieBumwhig »

I just got a new-to-me desktop computer (Dell XPS 8700). I've only tried AVLinux-MXE so far, and with the RT kernel, it is, indeed, great (by my standards).

Unfortunately, it has a bad (says the internet) graphics card, Nvidia GeForce GT 720. I think the Nouveau driver doesn't work with QT - anyway, SuperCollider wouldn't run, and switching to the Nvidia driver fixed that... but now I can't run the RT kernel. I've tried AVL's LowLatency, and also Liquorix 5.7.0 (starting in 5.9.0, the Nvidia driver seems not to work). Both of those give me regular xruns even with high latency and light loads. I've tried many settings, with the help of xruncounter.

(as I write this, I'm running the RT kernel, and getting no xruns at 4ms latency. The display resolution is all wrong, but usable enough for testing and writing pleas for help.)

I see others have been talking about similar issues, but I don't know anything about "rolling my own kernel." I don't even know if that's the right expression.

So! Opinion time, if you all would be so kind. Maybe Arch has an RT kernel that allows Nvidia drivers? Maybe I can teach myself how to do stuff like in this thread viewtopic.php?f=27&t=23192? Maybe I should spend a bit more money and get a cheap-ish AMD card? (Right? Only Nvidia has this kind of problem? I've never done more hardware tinkering than upgrade RAM and swap hard drives, but I'm ready to try.)

Any advice greatly appreciated!
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GMaq
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Re: advice for nvidia card sufferer

Post by GMaq »

Hi,

How did you install the nVidia driver in AVL-MXE with the LL (lowlatency) Kernel? By using the nVidia installer in the MX Tools?
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ZestieBumwhig
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Re: advice for nvidia card sufferer

Post by ZestieBumwhig »

I actually used Synaptic (old dog/new tricks)... but then I checked again with the MX Tools installer, and it said it would have done the same thing ("already installed.")

I just now had MX Tools redo it anyway, in case it did it differently/better, but it's the same - bad screen resolution in the RT audio wonderland.
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GMaq
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Re: advice for nvidia card sufferer

Post by GMaq »

Ok,

As a side point there will be new AVL kernels coming this week which may or may not help this situation..

Try this... go into the MX Package Installer and enable the 'Test' Repo and see if there is an nVidia driver upgrade there, if so install it with the LL or Liquorix kernel and see if that helps...

If it were me, (and it has been me in the past) I'd yank the thing and get an AMD card... Radeon RX 470/480/570/570X/580/580X/590 are all very well supported with the RT Kernel. I have an RX 570 and they are often around 100-120 bucks.

On the other hand something like Manjaro may be the bomb diggety and make all your dreams come true with the nVidia card, I literally know nothing about Arch and the state of their Video drivers and Kernels
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ZestieBumwhig
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Re: advice for nvidia card sufferer

Post by ZestieBumwhig »

Interesting... all of the above, very interesting. Thanks for the knowledge!

Tomorrow I'll try the Test Repo and see what happens. And I'll also keep my eyes out for the new AVL kernels.

I saw some chatter about nVidia support in Arch kernels, and I'm running Arch on this (other) laptop, but I hope to keep AVL on the desktop (and thanks for all the great work over the years!). It's nice to have a well-tuned system, with well-chosen software, as a sort of benchmark of what a computer can be. Also, this new desktop will live in my studio, and doesn't need to be as cutting-edge in terms of new PD/SuperCollider versions, dangerous curiosity, etc. In other words, a prime candidate for AVL and Debian.

And thanks for the tip on the graphics cards. They're currently way more expensive apparently, but I'll keep watching those as well as the kernels.
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Re: advice for nvidia card sufferer

Post by sunrat »

I don't actually use AVL-MXE these days but Debian Bullseye although Nvidia situation is similar. I wrote a setup guide which includes a secret trick how to install Nvidia driver with an RT kernel, look in the section labelled Nvidia graphics cards: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=22793
That said, I did a bunch of testing both with Debian RT kernel, and in Manjaro with its special Nvidia RT kernel, and found better performance for most tasks using a Liquorix low-latency kernel in Debian. I didn't try the AVL kernel although I intended to at the time. Nvidia driver works fine with Liquorix kernel, currently 5.12.
I have also read less than glowing reports of the GT720 card. It is the absolute most basic model of the series and was selling for ~40 bucks last I looked so it can't be expected to perform much. I have a GTX970 which is now 6 years old but it runs fine for most things, even RDR2 at modest graphics settings. :wink: :D
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Re: advice for nvidia card sufferer

Post by davephillips »

FWIW: I use a GT710 card - with the nVidia driver - in my desktop box, with a realtime kernel from Ubuntu Studio. Works well here.

dp
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Re: advice for nvidia card sufferer

Post by merlyn »

ZestieBumwhig wrote:The display resolution is all wrong, but usable enough for testing and writing pleas for help.
Have you established that this only happens with the RT kernel? Does Nvidia proprietary drivers + low latency kernel result in the correct resolution?

I had an Nvidia card and I remember that after installing the proprietary drivers I had to tick a box '96 DPI' to get a sensible resolution.
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ZestieBumwhig
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Re: advice for nvidia card sufferer

Post by ZestieBumwhig »

Well, I'm confused but happy. Yesterday I was trying to remove nVidia drivers and re-install using @sunrat's special sauce, but I had to quit halfway through for unrelated reasons - I only removed the nVidia, did not start re-installing. Now, today, the Nouveau driver is currently in use, I've got 4ms latency in the RT kernel, graphics are good - which all makes sense, but... SuperCollider is running! Maybe I will encounter other graphics-related problems, but originally, I had been unable to open SuperCollider with Nouveau (because of QT, apparently).

So, thanks all who chimed in. I predict something will still come up to bite me, but for now I'll just be happy that the Ancient Ones of Linuxia are smiling on me.

And, in case people are curious:

@merlyn, only RT kernel + nVidia drivers gave bad resolution (but good audio), LowLatency and Liquorix looked good but gave xruns. I did not find the box you mentioned for 96 dpi; only one resolution option (the wrong one!) was available from Settings -> Display. I was going to look for more options, but now I'm too happy.

@davephillips - interesting, good to know. And you didn't have to do any funny business?

@sunrat I'm bookmarking your guide because I can only assume my good luck will pass with some upgrade down the road.

@GMaq Still fantasizing about upgrading my graphics card when prices go down.
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Re: advice for nvidia card sufferer

Post by GMaq »

It's funny how things change..

Back when I started with AVL You actually wanted to have nVidia over ATI (later to become AMD), of course Intel was the best option and I still insist on Intel Video Desktops for my studio boxes but back in the day there were actual nVidia drivers and everyone was pissed at ATI because their Xorg Drivers lagged and they were notorious for pulling hardware support for popular cards from their Proprietary driver that were only a few years old.. Then the tables turned as the Nouveau driver became the nVidia Xorg driver and it seems to have never gotten off the launchpad although it certainly was much better a few years ago than it seems now. At the same time AMD drivers for Xorg for Radeon and newer cards have gotten so good that there is really no reason to go looking for proprietary AMD drivers unless your card isn't fully supported or you are a super hardcore gamer..

This is the reason I currently recommend AMD if you can't get Intel... both 'just work' with an RT Kernel, No muss no fuss!

@davephillips

Has something changed with Ubuntu Studio? I thought there were no RT Preempt kernels in 'buntudom any more just the option for 'lowlatency' Preempt (which for most people perform more than well enough)..
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Re: advice for nvidia card sufferer

Post by davephillips »

GMaq wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:38 pm
@davephillips

Has something changed with Ubuntu Studio? I thought there were no RT Preempt kernels in 'buntudom any more just the option for 'lowlatency' Preempt (which for most people perform more than well enough)..
You are correct, apologies for my confusion. I'm running LL preempt kernels on both machines here. It's probably been quite a while since I tried to configure an RT + nVidia kernel. As you say, the UStudio LL kernel is very nice for my purposes.

Best regards,

dp
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ZestieBumwhig
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Re: advice for nvidia card sufferer

Post by ZestieBumwhig »

Another update, because why not: When I completed the job of apt remove'ing the old nVidia files, SuperCollider again wouldn't load. I sort of knew I was in a blessed state of delicately balanced packages, that was susceptible to the slightest breeze...

So I followed MX Linux guide to revert to Nouveau (sudo ddm-mx -p nvidia), used @sunrat's

Code: Select all

export IGNORE_PREEMPT_RT_PRESENCE=1
trick, then re-installed nVidia... and it worked! (since I'm not sure how immediate the installation needs to be after the EXPORT line, I just executed the line that the MX Installer said it was going to execute (/usr/local/bin/ddm-mx -i nvidia), instead of relying on the MX GUI.)

I only mention this in case someone else ends up on a similar path. Luck didn't hold, but perseverance did!
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Re: advice for nvidia card sufferer

Post by sunrat »

ZestieBumwhig wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:04 pmSo I followed MX Linux guide to revert to Nouveau (sudo ddm-mx -p nvidia), used @sunrat's

Code: Select all

export IGNORE_PREEMPT_RT_PRESENCE=1
trick, then re-installed nVidia... and it worked! (since I'm not sure how immediate the installation needs to be after the EXPORT line, I just executed the line that the MX Installer said it was going to execute (/usr/local/bin/ddm-mx -i nvidia), instead of relying on the MX GUI.)
That export command is to set an environment variable. The only reason nvidia driver won't install on an RT kernel normally is because it specifically has code to detect RT kernel and prevent it! Damn Nvidia. :| Setting that environment variable overrides that, and it should be active for the current session but won't persist after reboot.
I believe it was tramp on this forum who enlightened me about that. :wink:
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Re: advice for nvidia card sufferer

Post by alexson »

Hello ZestieBumwhig,

Nice advice.
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Re: advice for nvidia card sufferer

Post by GuntherT »

I had a desktop with a Nvidia card years ago, and I had to use their proprietary driver and check a box in the Nvidia settings menu for "High Performance" (or something along those lines) before things worked smoothly. If that setting wasn't selected, I'd get xruns galore even if everything else on my system was setup correctly.

I'm not a gamer, so going forward I have just stuck with integrated Intel graphics, which do what I need with no fuss.
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