I see
I mean in the older kernel it was obviously working. The problem startet with a kernel update for funkmuscleCrackling without xruns with RT PREEMPT kernel
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lilith
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Re: Crackling without xruns.. worse with large buffers
I mean in the older kernel it was obviously working. The problem startet with a kernel update for funkmuscle-
lilith
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Re: Crackling without xruns.. worse with large buffers
I was wrong. Just tested it once more and the crackles occur in duplex and non-duplex mode. The ESI DAC works fine (tested it again)puleglot wrote: ↑Sat Apr 18, 2020 3:23 pmFor the best compatibility with linux you should get an USB audio class compliant interface with Asynchronous endpoints and explicit feedback. So basically any XMOS-based interface excluding Scarlett 3rd Gen and MOTU M2/M4 should work.I think Behringer U-Phoria meets this criteria. I have Roland Rubix24 that works without any problems. 2nd Gen Scarlett should be fine (but you can only find them used I think) and a lot of other interfaces in the same generation.
That's the Roland
Code: Select all
Bus 002 Device 002: ID 0582:01e0 Roland Corp.
Couldn't open device, some information will be missing
Device Descriptor:
bLength 18
bDescriptorType 1
bcdUSB 2.00
bDeviceClass 239 Miscellaneous Device
bDeviceSubClass 2
bDeviceProtocol 1 Interface Association
bMaxPacketSize0 64
idVendor 0x0582 Roland Corp.
idProduct 0x01e0
bcdDevice 11.1f
iManufacturer 1
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bNumConfigurations 1
Configuration Descriptor:
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wTotalLength 0x0162
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Self Powered
MaxPower 0mA
Interface Association:
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bCategory 8
wTotalLength 0x0065
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Latency control Control (read-only)
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bDescriptorType 36
bDescriptorSubtype 10 (CLOCK_SOURCE)
bClockID 41
bmAttributes 3 Internal programmable clock
bmControls 0x07
Clock Frequency Control (read/write)
Clock Validity Control (read-only)
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iClockSource 9
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bDescriptorType 36
bDescriptorSubtype 11 (CLOCK_SELECTOR)
bClockID 40
bNrInPins 1
baCSourceID(0) 41
bmControls 0x03
Clock Selector Control (read/write)
iClockSelector 8
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bLength 17
bDescriptorType 36
bDescriptorSubtype 2 (INPUT_TERMINAL)
bTerminalID 2
wTerminalType 0x0101 USB Streaming
bAssocTerminal 0
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bNrChannels 4
bmChannelConfig 0x00000000
iChannelNames 13
bmControls 0x0000
iTerminal 6
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bDescriptorSubtype 3 (OUTPUT_TERMINAL)
bTerminalID 20
wTerminalType 0x0301 Speaker
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bmControls 0x0000
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AudioControl Interface Descriptor:
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bDescriptorType 36
bDescriptorSubtype 2 (INPUT_TERMINAL)
bTerminalID 1
wTerminalType 0x0201 Microphone
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bmChannelConfig 0x00000000
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iTerminal 0
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bDescriptorSubtype 6 (FEATURE_UNIT)
bUnitID 11
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bmaControls(0) 0x00000000
bmaControls(1) 0x00000000
bmaControls(2) 0x00000000
iFeature 0
AudioControl Interface Descriptor:
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bDescriptorType 36
bDescriptorSubtype 3 (OUTPUT_TERMINAL)
bTerminalID 22
wTerminalType 0x0101 USB Streaming
bAssocTerminal 0
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bCSourceID 40
bmControls 0x0000
iTerminal 7
Interface Descriptor:
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Interface Descriptor:
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AudioStreaming Interface Descriptor:
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bDescriptorType 36
bDescriptorSubtype 1 (AS_GENERAL)
bTerminalLink 2
bmControls 0x00
bFormatType 1
bmFormats 0x00000001
PCM
bNrChannels 4
bmChannelConfig 0x00000000
iChannelNames 13
AudioStreaming Interface Descriptor:
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bDescriptorSubtype 2 (FORMAT_TYPE)
bFormatType 1 (FORMAT_TYPE_I)
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Transfer Type Isochronous
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wMaxPacketSize 0x0190 1x 400 bytes
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bDescriptorSubtype 1 (EP_GENERAL)
bmAttributes 0x00
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bLockDelayUnits 2 Decoded PCM samples
wLockDelay 0x0008
Endpoint Descriptor:
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bEndpointAddress 0x81 EP 1 IN
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Transfer Type Isochronous
Synch Type None
Usage Type Feedback
wMaxPacketSize 0x0004 1x 4 bytes
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Will Not Detach
Manifestation Tolerant
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wDetachTimeout 250 milliseconds
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bcdDFUVersion 1.10
With Bitwig and Reaper no issues, only with Renoise.
Re: Crackling without xruns.. worse with large buffers
Ignore this. After some more testing I came to conclusion that this is actually pulseaudio-only issue (related to timer-based scheduling and transfer size).puleglot wrote: ↑Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:51 pm I've found out that some devices with synchronous endpoints perform much better if the driver packs less iso frames per URB. This is the case with my Microbook IIc for example. You might want to try to decrease MAX_PACKS value in sound/usb/card.h from 6 to 4, 2 or 1.
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lilith
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Re: Crackling without xruns.. worse with large buffers
Ah ok. I will keep it anyway. It looks much better than the zoompuleglot wrote: ↑Sat May 02, 2020 8:36 pmIgnore this. After some more testing I came to conclusion that this is actually pulseaudio-only issue (related to timer-based scheduling and transfer size).puleglot wrote: ↑Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:51 pm I've found out that some devices with synchronous endpoints perform much better if the driver packs less iso frames per URB. This is the case with my Microbook IIc for example. You might want to try to decrease MAX_PACKS value in sound/usb/card.h from 6 to 4, 2 or 1.
. I tried a very old Renoise version from 2010 and there it also crackles, but it correlates with xruns. On the old version it is getting worse when I open chromium (cause CPU usage goes up a lot). In the latest Renoise version it is crackling much more and it does not get worse when opening chromium. I try if I can locate when there was a change in Renoise.
Last edited by lilith on Sat May 02, 2020 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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lilith
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Re: Crackling without xruns.. worse with large buffers
Ok, until Renoise 2.72 it behaves normal I would say. The issue becomes worse or apparent with 2.8.0.
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lilith
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Re: Crackling without xruns.. worse with large buffers
I was testing the Zoom R8 on a Laptop (also with Debian 10 running). There is no crackling in Renoise. If there is then I also get xruns. The way it should be.
My assumption at the moment is that I misconfigured something with RT prioritization.
My assumption at the moment is that I misconfigured something with RT prioritization.
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lilith
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Re: Crackling without xruns.. worse with large buffers
OMG:
I found what's responsible for that mess. I almost thought my CPU or RAM is broken, but it was the #GRUB threadirqs boot option
Some weeks ago I realized that I don't have the RTIRQ script running. When I made some changes in the RTIRQ settings file I added threadirqs to the boot options. Is far I understand this is needed for RTIRQ. I took it out now, rebooted and the crackling is gone!
But what I don't understand yet is: Why did I still get crackles (with threadirqs in the boot parameters) when I stop RTIRQ with? Shouldn't this stop IRQ handling?
The other question is also why does threadirqs affects Renoise, but not Bitwig or Reaper.
edit: Seems much more prone to xruns now (also in Bitwig). Is it possbile that it's getting worse with RT IRQ handling when using large buffer sizes like 1024 samples?
Maybe that's part of the problem. Frequency should be 1000 Hz.
I found what's responsible for that mess. I almost thought my CPU or RAM is broken, but it was the #GRUB threadirqs boot option
Some weeks ago I realized that I don't have the RTIRQ script running. When I made some changes in the RTIRQ settings file I added threadirqs to the boot options. Is far I understand this is needed for RTIRQ. I took it out now, rebooted and the crackling is gone!
But what I don't understand yet is: Why did I still get crackles (with threadirqs in the boot parameters) when I stop RTIRQ with
Code: Select all
sudo /etc/init.d/rtirq stopThe other question is also why does threadirqs affects Renoise, but not Bitwig or Reaper.
edit: Seems much more prone to xruns now (also in Bitwig). Is it possbile that it's getting worse with RT IRQ handling when using large buffer sizes like 1024 samples?
Maybe that's part of the problem. Frequency should be 1000 Hz.
Code: Select all
cat /boot/config-`uname -r` | grep HZ
CONFIG_NO_HZ_COMMON=y
# CONFIG_HZ_PERIODIC is not set
CONFIG_NO_HZ_IDLE=y
# CONFIG_NO_HZ_FULL is not set
# CONFIG_NO_HZ is not set
# CONFIG_HZ_100 is not set
CONFIG_HZ_250=y
# CONFIG_HZ_300 is not set
# CONFIG_HZ_1000 is not set
CONFIG_HZ=250
CONFIG_MACHZ_WDT=m
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thetotalchaos
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Re: Crackling without xruns.. worse with large buffers
This is just for information. I don't claim, if it directly apply to you @lilith
Have in mind that the threadirqs option is not needed for realtime kernels.
And even if you are using PREEMPT enabled standard kernel (like the so called lowlatency kernel), you cannot use the values between 90-99. Anything set with those values will default on 89.
Best regards, Totalchaos
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thetotalchaos
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Re: Crackling without xruns.. worse with large buffers
Hi @lilith,lilith wrote: ↑Sun May 03, 2020 8:41 pm
Maybe that's part of the problem. Frequency should be 1000 Hz.Code: Select all
cat /boot/config-`uname -r` | grep HZ CONFIG_NO_HZ_COMMON=y # CONFIG_HZ_PERIODIC is not set CONFIG_NO_HZ_IDLE=y # CONFIG_NO_HZ_FULL is not set # CONFIG_NO_HZ is not set # CONFIG_HZ_100 is not set CONFIG_HZ_250=y # CONFIG_HZ_300 is not set # CONFIG_HZ_1000 is not set CONFIG_HZ=250 CONFIG_MACHZ_WDT=m
Setting 1000hz is important. Think of it as quantizing of sound and MIDI events. At 1000hz the pieces are smaller.
Check out my latest music album Le Femme Robotique 2021
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lilith
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Re: Crackling without xruns.. worse with large buffers
Booted in the realtime kernel (Linux marco 4.19.0-8-rt-amd64 #1 SMP PREEMPT RT Debian 4.19.98-1+deb10u1 (2020-04-27) x86_64 GNU/Linux) again with threadirq taken out from grub (as it is not needed for RT kernels) and the crackling is back.
I checked the timer settings and get:
According to this thread it is not necessary to make any changes to the timer: viewtopic.php?t=19359
Also here: https://techpatterns.com/forums/about2748.html
The priorities of my interface (xhi_hcd) are:
When I stop rtirq it is still crackling.
With the stock kernel (4.19.0-8-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.19.98-1+deb10u1 (2020-04-27) ) there's no crackling.
So I assume that either Renoise has problems with the RT kernel or there's something wrong with my configuration.
I checked the timer settings and get:
Code: Select all
cat config-4.19.0-8-rt-amd64 | grep 'CONFIG_HZ'
# CONFIG_HZ_PERIODIC is not set
# CONFIG_HZ_100 is not set
CONFIG_HZ_250=y
# CONFIG_HZ_300 is not set
# CONFIG_HZ_1000 is not set
CONFIG_HZ=250
Also here: https://techpatterns.com/forums/about2748.html
The priorities of my interface (xhi_hcd) are:
Code: Select all
sudo /etc/init.d/rtirq status
PID CLS RTPRIO NI PRI %CPU STAT COMMAND
210 FF 95 - 135 7.7 S irq/28-xhci_hcd
218 FF 94 - 134 0.0 S irq/29-xhci_hcd
9 TS - 0 19 0.0 S ksoftirqd/0
25 TS - 0 19 0.0 S ksoftirqd/1
33 TS - 0 19 0.0 S ksoftirqd/2
41 TS - 0 19 0.0 S ksoftirqd/3
59 TS - 0 19 0.0 S irq/9-acpi
82 TS - 0 19 0.0 S irq/8-rtc0
163 TS - 0 19 0.0 S irq/18-i801_smb
187 TS - 0 19 0.0 S irq/16-ehci_hcd
216 TS - 0 19 0.0 S irq/23-ehci_hcd
219 TS - 0 19 0.0 S irq/27-ahci[000
236 TS - 0 19 0.0 S irq/30-i915
398 TS - 0 19 0.0 S irq/31-mei_me
770 TS - 0 19 0.0 S irq/26-enp2s0 With the stock kernel (4.19.0-8-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.19.98-1+deb10u1 (2020-04-27) ) there's no crackling.
So I assume that either Renoise has problems with the RT kernel or there's something wrong with my configuration.
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lilith
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Re: Crackling without xruns with RT PREEMPT kernel
I get the same issue on a laptop also with Debian 10 running. Checked the realtime kernel from AVlinux and also get the same behaviour. I'll use the stock kernel from Debian now.