are you always listening at 83dB SPL? aka/ ISO 226:2003 based loudness compensation

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Capoeira
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Re: are you always listening at 83dB SPL? aka/ ISO 226:2003 based loudness compensation

Post by Capoeira »

sadko4u wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:59 pm
Capoeira wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:42 pm nice. Any way to donate with cryptos? saw the liberapay option
Since I've recently started to use Ethereum, you can donate directly to this Ethereum address:
0x079b24da78d78302cd3CfbB80c728cD554606cc6
sent you some, it's not much as brazilian currency is weak atm lol
https://etherscan.io/tx/0x3f8509b6e9abd ... d63a8c217f
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Re: are you always listening at 83dB SPL? aka/ ISO 226:2003 based loudness compensation

Post by sadko4u »

The plugin has been published within 1.1.24 release of LSP Plugins.

Thanks for the small donation.
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Re: are you always listening at 83dB SPL? aka/ ISO 226:2003 based loudness compensation

Post by Capoeira »

sadko4u wrote: Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:56 pm The plugin has been published within 1.1.24 release of LSP Plugins.

Thanks for the small donation.
very nice

like I said Dolar vs Brazilian Real is very high atm, at feels more like $100 to me in terms of buying power.

recomended it at the audio forum I participate https://www.audiosciencereview.com/foru ... ost-458678
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Re: are you always listening at 83dB SPL? aka/ ISO 226:2003 based loudness compensation

Post by sadko4u »

why are amercians so repellent to ISO?
Because probably they have had ANSI S3.4 2007 standard which has it's own problems (and is not available for reading except for $$)
https://global.ihs.com/doc_detail.cfm?d ... 61&csf=ASA
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Re: are you always listening at 83dB SPL? aka/ ISO 226:2003 based loudness compensation

Post by turbidh20 »

How exactly do I set up loud_comp to calibrate it?

I've piped DeaDBeeF through /usr/bin/lsp-plugins-loud-comp-stereo with Jack as a test and audio plays but not sure how to set it up for - "audio system needs to be callibrated for the 83 dB output loudness". Which SPL meter should I use?

Apologies if this is blindingly obvious to everyone else!
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Re: are you always listening at 83dB SPL? aka/ ISO 226:2003 based loudness compensation

Post by sadko4u »

turbidh20 wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:24 pm Apologies if this is blindingly obvious to everyone else!
Nothing special, Here's part from the official documentation:
The plugin assumes the 83 phon equal loudness curve being a flat frequency response. For that case the audio system needs to be callibrated for the 83 dB output loudness. The plugin can generate a 0 dBFS sine wave digital reference signal at 1000 Hz which can be reproduced by the audio system and measured by the SPL meter.

Since measuried signal at 1 kHz matches the same loudness level in phons, the amplification knob of the audio system should be adjusted to reach the 83 dB SPL level on the SPL meter. After that, the Volume knob can be used to attenuate the overall loudness of the system while preserving equal loudness perception by the ear.
https://lsp-plug.in/?page=manuals&secti ... omp_stereo

In other words, you need a physical device - SPL meter (or Loudness meter) which will measure that 83 dB SPL.

I believe more detailed how to set it up may describe @Capoeira since he's the main customer who donated for the development of this plugin.
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Re: are you always listening at 83dB SPL? aka/ ISO 226:2003 based loudness compensation

Post by turbidh20 »

sadko4u wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 5:58 pmIn other words, you need a physical device - SPL meter (or Loudness meter) which will measure that 83 dB SPL.
Ahhh... ok, that's the bit I'm missing. I thought it could be done in software. Thanks.
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Re: are you always listening at 83dB SPL? aka/ ISO 226:2003 based loudness compensation

Post by Capoeira »

I think this is as revolutionary to my sound as digital room correction was.

first: you don't necessarily need a SPL meter. you can use it by ear like this:
listen to songs you love on Spotify (with normalization turned on) and put them to "perfect volume" on your amp. this "perfect volume" will be too loud over time, right? attenuate volume in the plugin now, and do so all the time you want it louder or less loud.

now, the SPL meter version works much better if you want to hear references* for mixing and/or mastering and while mixing and/or mastering.
btw: there is no real standard for music as this recent topic on facebook in a group which masters like Bob Katz participate once again showed: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1458538 ... 638434524/
only real standard is Katz's k-system, which isn't realy widespread in popular music.
the other standard which k-system is based on is for movie-theaters: -20dB RMS pink noise should read 83dB on c-weighted SPL reader for a single speaker (for stereo).
now if you research this you will find a widespread recomendation to lower this 83dB acording to the size of your room, and distance to your speakers. actualy audio engeneering is kind of a pseudo-science; there is no real foundations to most of the things you read.
one thing Katz for sure is right about: you need a fixed reference level; so you get used to the right balance at that level. now with loudness compensation we have the advantage to adjust level without (theoreticly) effect balance.
So what is the right SPL meter level to adjust the amp volume knob for this plug-in? there is no right answer to this. personaly I am trying out pink noise reading -14 LUFS atm, since this is +or- the normalizations standard steaming portals are using.
I recomend researching reference levels for mixing/mastering to develop personal conclusion about this. at the end, the most famous engeniers seam to use all their own levels, so the most important thing is to stick to a fixed level. this would mean: adjust amp volume to what sounds best to you on full volume, and then attenuate using volume knob in plugin (I am realizing I just came back to the "you can use it without SPL meter part lol")

*all music you are hearing at your system should be balanced for this, even in you free time, so that balanced music becomes natural for you while mixing/mastering
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Re: are you always listening at 83dB SPL? aka/ ISO 226:2003 based loudness compensation

Post by turbidh20 »

@Capoeira - thanks for the explanation and info, it's very interesting :)

I'll look into it a bit more but due to a combination of bilateral frequency loss in my hearing and having to use headphones mainly (music production is in a corner of my living room!), I'm not going to dedicate too much time and effort to it. I'm way behind with my remixes etc., so need to pull my finger out!

@sadko4u - thanks for all your hard work, much appreciated :)
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Re: are you always listening at 83dB SPL? aka/ ISO 226:2003 based loudness compensation

Post by khz »

Capoeira wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:07 pm real standard is Katz's k-system
Level Practices (Part 1) - http://www.digido.com/articles-and-demo ... art-1.html
Level Practices (Part 2) - http://www.digido.com/how-to-make-bette ... art-2.html
. . . FZ - Does humor belongs in Music?
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Re: are you always listening at 83dB SPL? aka/ ISO 226:2003 based loudness compensation

Post by turbidh20 »

khz wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:38 pm
Capoeira wrote: Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:07 pm real standard is Katz's k-system
Level Practices (Part 1) - http://www.digido.com/articles-and-demo ... art-1.html
Level Practices (Part 2) - http://www.digido.com/how-to-make-bette ... art-2.html
Thanks for posting this. "Part 1" went mostly over my head! I found "Part 2" very interesting indeed.

Mixbus has a K-14 meter on the master bus, so I'm gong to read up on this and hopefully come up with a system to implement some overall consistency on my outputted songs. This is with headphones though, so it could be trickier. Anyway, food for thought.
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Re: are you always listening at 83dB SPL? aka/ ISO 226:2003 based loudness compensation

Post by Capoeira »

mastering engineers don't realy aim for -14LUFS though.
it depends on the genre, every genre has their typical LUFS level.
they don't realy master for the -14 target for online; it all comes down to the amount of compression. if a genre is tipical -9LUFS, and then uploaded, it will have about -14LUFS, but will have a lower peak then.
it's a little confusing. you could still master all to -14LUFS if you have the right feeling for the amount of compression for the genre
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Re: are you always listening at 83dB SPL? aka/ ISO 226:2003 based loudness compensation

Post by Capoeira »

Image

my DSP chains are powerd by LSP lol
above is headphones,
below speakers
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Re: are you always listening at 83dB SPL? aka/ ISO 226:2003 based loudness compensation

Post by turbidh20 »

Capoeira wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:20 pm my DSP chains are powerd by LSP lol
above is headphones,
below speakers
Thanks for posting. I'm still trying to figure out configuring for headphones. I even tried some LFS apps on my phone but they're all next to useless. I think I'll just need to use my ears to get a consistent level between all my tracks.

Can I ask why you use the IR and reverb in your chain?
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Re: are you always listening at 83dB SPL? aka/ ISO 226:2003 based loudness compensation

Post by Capoeira »

turbidh20 wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:17 am tried some LFS apps
what are those?
turbidh20 wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:17 am Can I ask why you use the IR and reverb in your chain?
impulse_responses_stereo-01 has a frequency response correction for my headphones. I took my phone meassurement from this huge database https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq; but created an own filter to create a (percieved) flat response using this target: https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq ... t_2013.png. the target (Harman) headphone entusiast use is very bass heavie and not suited for mixing at all (imo the bass boost is annoying even for normal listening): https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq ... r_2018.png

impulse_reverb_stereo aplies binaural IRs I created (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEL0NvifG90) to make my headphone sound more like speakers in a room instead having the sound in my head. this is very important for stereo image mixing (though I prefer doing this on my monitors, just more reliable. I use the headphone manly for track EQing, and noise/bleed observation)
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