are you always listening at 83dB SPL? aka/ ISO 226:2003 based loudness compensation

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Capoeira
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are you always listening at 83dB SPL? aka/ ISO 226:2003 based loudness compensation

Post by Capoeira »

our 40+ members might remember those loudness buttons on recievers and amps of the 70ies and early 80ies. They ideia behind it (though poorly realized back then) actualy makes a lot of sense: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour
We all know that to hear the soud balanced you have to crank up the system. But most of the time we actualy don't hear music at 83dB (mastering reference) right?
Nowadays we have data to realize at least a sigificantly accurate compensation at all levels in the ISO 226:2003.
I have been using/testing these two IRs for for a week or so through a convolver: https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php?topic= ... #msg722690
If you try it out use the alternative version. I found myself not having the need to crank up the volume anymore. listening at -20 most of the time, and when I want to feel the music I go -10
There is also this https://github.com/dpapavas/alsaloudness for Alsa. I didn't try it out since I use Ffado with Jack.
I would like to push a more advanced jack compatible gui based stand-alone version of this, and asking here for people interested in something like this. let me know

PatS
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Re: are you always listening at 83dB SPL? aka/ ISO 226:2003 based loudness compensation

Post by PatS »

Though I had heard about the human ear's "Fletcher-Munson" sensitivity thing some years ago, I had forgotten all about it.
...at last I realize what exactly that "loudness" button on my amp in the 80s was for :D
I'd be quite interested in software tools which address the subject.
Thanks!

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Capoeira
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Re: are you always listening at 83dB SPL? aka/ ISO 226:2003 based loudness compensation

Post by Capoeira »

PatS wrote:Though I had heard about the human ear's "Fletcher-Munson" sensitivity thing some years ago, I had forgotten all about it.
...at last I realize what exactly that "loudness" button on my amp in the 80s was for :D
I'd be quite interested in software tools which address the subject.
Thanks!
Hi, I somehow missed your reply. This "project" is postponed in my agenda, but I come back to this.
ATM I use those two IRs (alternative version) I mentioned. It's very nice how you get used to adjust the percieved loudness to the curve chosen. The ultimate solution would be a curve that adjust automaticly to the loudness (not the volume)

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Capoeira
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Re: are you always listening at 83dB SPL? aka/ ISO 226:2003 based loudness compensation

Post by Capoeira »

any dev willing to dev a plugin version of the alsa software?
we can talk about sponsoring

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sadko4u
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Re: are you always listening at 83dB SPL? aka/ ISO 226:2003 based loudness compensation

Post by sadko4u »

Do I right understand that you need an Equalizer which will have different equalization (according to the loudness curve) depending on the gain settings?
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Capoeira
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Re: are you always listening at 83dB SPL? aka/ ISO 226:2003 based loudness compensation

Post by Capoeira »

sadko4u wrote:Do I right understand that you need an Equalizer which will have different equalization (according to the loudness curve) depending on the gain settings?
yea, the EQ/convolver needs a diferent curve every 5dB or so. It needs a proper volume control which will change the curves when changed.
an EQ/convolver software with a switch to change between (6 or so) curves would actualy do the job

the dev explains the theory here: https://github.com/dpapavas/alsaloudness

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sadko4u
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Re: are you always listening at 83dB SPL? aka/ ISO 226:2003 based loudness compensation

Post by sadko4u »

Capoeira wrote: yea, the EQ/convolver needs a diferent curve every 5dB or so. It needs a proper volume control which will change the curves when changed.
an EQ/convolver software with a switch to change between (6 or so) curves would actualy do the job

the dev explains the theory here: https://github.com/dpapavas/alsaloudness
The curve can be approximated.
Anyway, the idea of such plugin is good. I think I'll take on it but a bit later.
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bluebell
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Re: are you always listening at 83dB SPL? aka/ ISO 226:2003 based loudness compensation

Post by bluebell »

sadko4u wrote:Do I right understand that you need an Equalizer which will have different equalization (according to the loudness curve) depending on the gain settings?
Some old German HiFi equipment had a valume knob that used "Gehörrichtige Lautstärkeregelung".

https://www.radiomuseum.org/forumdata/u ... Info%2EPNG
https://www.radiomuseum.org/forumdata/u ... rven%2Epng
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Capoeira
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Re: are you always listening at 83dB SPL? aka/ ISO 226:2003 based loudness compensation

Post by Capoeira »

sadko4u wrote:
Capoeira wrote: yea, the EQ/convolver needs a diferent curve every 5dB or so. It needs a proper volume control which will change the curves when changed.
an EQ/convolver software with a switch to change between (6 or so) curves would actualy do the job

the dev explains the theory here: https://github.com/dpapavas/alsaloudness
The curve can be approximated.
Anyway, the idea of such plugin is good. I think I'll take on it but a bit later.
cool,
one nice add-on would be a LUFS meter, though someone could easily use ebumeter

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Capoeira
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Re: are you always listening at 83dB SPL? aka/ ISO 226:2003 based loudness compensation

Post by Capoeira »

bluebell wrote:
sadko4u wrote:Do I right understand that you need an Equalizer which will have different equalization (according to the loudness curve) depending on the gain settings?
Some old German HiFi equipment had a valume knob that used "Gehörrichtige Lautstärkeregelung".

https://www.radiomuseum.org/forumdata/u ... Info%2EPNG
https://www.radiomuseum.org/forumdata/u ... rven%2Epng
very nice,
I don't understand why this concept is abandoned. back in the days all amps had a loudness button, though not as advanced as this Grundig solution.
Meassuring the loudness is a problem, but a good listener should be able to adjust the correction by ear.
low volume music sounds so much better I just don't get it why nobody wants this anymore. People pay $20.000 for gear to hear sound like on a laptop speaker at low volumes

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bluebell
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Re: are you always listening at 83dB SPL? aka/ ISO 226:2003 based loudness compensation

Post by bluebell »

Capoeira wrote:
bluebell wrote:
sadko4u wrote:Do I right understand that you need an Equalizer which will have different equalization (according to the loudness curve) depending on the gain settings?
Some old German HiFi equipment had a valume knob that used "Gehörrichtige Lautstärkeregelung".

https://www.radiomuseum.org/forumdata/u ... Info%2EPNG
https://www.radiomuseum.org/forumdata/u ... rven%2Epng
very nice,
I don't understand why this concept is abandoned. back in the days all amps had a loudness button, though not as advanced as this Grundig solution.
Meassuring the loudness is a problem, but a good listener should be able to adjust the correction by ear.
low volume music sounds so much better I just don't get it why nobody wants this anymore. People pay $20.000 for gear to hear sound like on a laptop speaker at low volumes
My Yamaha HiFi amps have a loudness knob – from "Flat" to a strong loudness effect. Not bad. But not calibrated as the Grundig and other amps were in those times.
Linux – MOTU UltraLite AVB – Qtractor – https://soundcloud.com/suedwestlicht

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Capoeira
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Re: are you always listening at 83dB SPL? aka/ ISO 226:2003 based loudness compensation

Post by Capoeira »

bluebell wrote:
Capoeira wrote:
bluebell wrote:
Some old German HiFi equipment had a valume knob that used "Gehörrichtige Lautstärkeregelung".

https://www.radiomuseum.org/forumdata/u ... Info%2EPNG
https://www.radiomuseum.org/forumdata/u ... rven%2Epng
very nice,
I don't understand why this concept is abandoned. back in the days all amps had a loudness button, though not as advanced as this Grundig solution.
Meassuring the loudness is a problem, but a good listener should be able to adjust the correction by ear.
low volume music sounds so much better I just don't get it why nobody wants this anymore. People pay $20.000 for gear to hear sound like on a laptop speaker at low volumes
My Yamaha HiFi amps have a loudness knob – from "Flat" to a strong loudness effect. Not bad. But not calibrated as the Grundig and other amps were in those times.
nice. I whish there were standalone DSP boxes with this implanted

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sadko4u
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Re: are you always listening at 83dB SPL? aka/ ISO 226:2003 based loudness compensation

Post by sadko4u »

FYI I've created a GitHub issue to not to forget the feature request: https://github.com/sadko4u/lsp-plugins/issues/81
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Capoeira
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Re: are you always listening at 83dB SPL? aka/ ISO 226:2003 based loudness compensation

Post by Capoeira »

sadko4u wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:31 am
FYI I've created a GitHub issue to not to forget the feature request: https://github.com/sadko4u/lsp-plugins/issues/81
nice. Any way to donate with cryptos? saw the liberapay option

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Re: are you always listening at 83dB SPL? aka/ ISO 226:2003 based loudness compensation

Post by sadko4u »

Capoeira wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:42 pm
nice. Any way to donate with cryptos? saw the liberapay option
Since I've recently started to use Ethereum, you can donate directly to this Ethereum address:
0x079b24da78d78302cd3CfbB80c728cD554606cc6
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