For those supporting OpenOctave...

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GraysonPeddie
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For those supporting OpenOctave...

Postby GraysonPeddie » Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:09 pm

The campaign has been suspended due to confusion and miscommunication:

http://opengameart.org/forumtopic/fundr ... pen-octave

http://www.ubuntuvibes.com/2012/04/help ... -open.html

More information about OpenOctave: www.openoctave.org
--Grayson Peddie

Music Interest: New Age w/ a mix of modern smooth jazz, light techno/trance & downtempo -- something Epcot Future World/Tomorrowland-flavored.

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Re: For those supporting OpenOctave...

Postby raboof » Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:46 am

GraysonPeddie wrote:The campaign has been suspended due to confusion and miscommunication

Looks like this has been resolved now.

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Re: For those supporting OpenOctave...

Postby studio32 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:14 am

I can imagine this is very frustrating for the project. On the other hand you know that this kind of problems could happen on the Internet. What really concerns me here, is that they react with words like 'you're the reason why we discuss if we want to release it for Linux still'. If some kind of stupid child can force this kind of reaction, you wonder if you want to invest in working with OpenOctave. Tomorrow there is another child abusing the project and we've to doubt again whether they will shut down releasing for Linux. I don't like these threats at all and for me such statements makes a project unreliable.

We are discussing not releasing to Linux anymore. I would point out that you are the main cause of that. Well you and others like you. The shoot first ask questions later crowd.
Last edited by studio32 on Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: For those supporting OpenOctave...

Postby GraysonPeddie » Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:35 am

Well, I'm happy to see that the campaign is back up with more funds coming in; consequently, it's sad to see the perks like M-Audio Oxygen 49 and Behringer BCR2000 go away.:(
--Grayson Peddie

Music Interest: New Age w/ a mix of modern smooth jazz, light techno/trance & downtempo -- something Epcot Future World/Tomorrowland-flavored.

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Re: For those supporting OpenOctave...

Postby ccherrett » Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:00 pm

GraysonPeddie wrote:Well, I'm happy to see that the campaign is back up with more funds coming in; consequently, it's sad to see the perks like M-Audio Oxygen 49 and Behringer BCR2000 go away.:(


We were forced to remove the prizes. We can only offers services or items that are not raffled of lottery based. Very sorry for the craziness.

On the other hand the owner of Opengameart.org issued us a formal apology and donated $250 towards the campaign.
Christopher Cherrett
Founder of The Open Octave Project
http://www.openoctave.org

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Re: For those supporting OpenOctave...

Postby ccherrett » Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:17 pm

studio32 wrote:I can imagine this is very frustrating for the project. On the other hand you know that this kind of problems could happen on the Internet. What really concerns me here, is that they react with words like 'you're the reason why we discuss if we want to release it for Linux still'. If some kind of stupid child can force this kind of reaction, you wonder if you want to invest in working with OpenOctave. Tomorrow there is another child abusing the project and we've to doubt again whether they will shut down releasing for Linux. I don't like these threats at all and for me such statements makes a project unreliable.

We are discussing not releasing to Linux anymore. I would point out that you are the main cause of that. Well you and others like you. The shoot first ask questions later crowd.


I have personally funded a full time developer + myself to make openoctave for the last 6 years. So as you can see this project will move on with or without your support.

Wish linux audio responded different than you do but it is the common thread.
Christopher Cherrett
Founder of The Open Octave Project
http://www.openoctave.org

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Re: For those supporting OpenOctave...

Postby ccherrett » Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:18 pm

raboof wrote:
GraysonPeddie wrote:The campaign has been suspended due to confusion and miscommunication

Looks like this has been resolved now.


Resolved but we had to gut our campaign. The whole thing was really nasty.
Christopher Cherrett
Founder of The Open Octave Project
http://www.openoctave.org

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Re: For those supporting OpenOctave...

Postby ccherrett » Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:22 pm

GraysonPeddie wrote:Well, I'm happy to see that the campaign is back up with more funds coming in; consequently, it's sad to see the perks like M-Audio Oxygen 49 and Behringer BCR2000 go away.:(


This will still happen, we just have to disconnect it from the campaign. We cannot do a draw with the campaign, but we can do something else that involves the same prizes. We will not let you down!
Christopher Cherrett
Founder of The Open Octave Project
http://www.openoctave.org

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Re: For those supporting OpenOctave...

Postby jeffh » Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:36 pm

We are discussing not releasing to Linux anymore. I would point out that you are the main cause of that. Well you and others like you. The shoot first ask questions later crowd.


If that doesn't alienate your entire Linux user base, I don't know what will. I certainly won't bother to evaluate OO ever again now that you've said that.

If you want to focus on Mac and Windows users, that's your choice, but TBH, I don't exactly see OpenOctave in it's present state competing well against DAWs like Cubase, Nuendo, Reaper, Ableton, Logic, Protools, and the list goes on... OTOH, it was competitive and even could've conceivably become the dominant DAW on Linux. Talk about not leaving the dance with the one you came with...

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Re: For those supporting OpenOctave...

Postby ccherrett » Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:08 pm

jeffh wrote:
Talk about not leaving the dance with the one you came with...


Hey man she will not behave herself. She is loud and unruly and has a horrible attitude. She is a total embarrassment and refuses to act civil. She is begging to be left at the dance.

EDIT: also I am not the first to want to leave her at the dance!
Christopher Cherrett
Founder of The Open Octave Project
http://www.openoctave.org

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Re: For those supporting OpenOctave...

Postby ccherrett » Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:16 pm

jeffh wrote:
We are discussing not releasing to Linux anymore. I would point out that you are the main cause of that. Well you and others like you. The shoot first ask questions later crowd.


If that doesn't alienate your entire Linux user base, I don't know what will. I certainly won't bother to evaluate OO ever again now that you've said that.

If you want to focus on Mac and Windows users, that's your choice, but TBH, I don't exactly see OpenOctave in it's present state competing well against DAWs like Cubase, Nuendo, Reaper, Ableton, Logic, Protools, and the list goes on... OTOH, it was competitive and even could've conceivably become the dominant DAW on Linux. Talk about not leaving the dance with the one you came with...


Also to note, we have plenty of linux users who understand what happened, understand our reaction to it, understand we recanted what we said and are very happy to support us. So please speak for your self and the other linux rebels but do not muddy all linux users with your fudd.

As for competing in Windows and Mac, we will be the best DAW on the planet. Since you wrote your post we are no longer in that state, there is no current state for us. We code hard, move fast, have a dedicated development team and will stop for nothing. Just can't stand the nasty loud ignorant few in the linux audio community that think they have something worthy to say.
Christopher Cherrett
Founder of The Open Octave Project
http://www.openoctave.org

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Re: For those supporting OpenOctave...

Postby wolftune » Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:03 pm

Wow, what a crazy phenomenon this internet world can be…

Chris (and everyone), I think we all need regular reminders that pure text does not convey emotion well. It's one reason to appreciate music: for it's emotional expression. It is far too easy to read someone's text with whatever emotion you suspect, and it may or may not be accurate.

As an observer here, I can easily see how the initial suspician and issues could be seen as really hurtful. Especially after the actual problems occurred, it is understandable that all the stuff leading up to that would be interpreted in an especially emotional way.

Chris, your threat to Linux in general is completely unwarranted and unprofessional. That said, it is emotionally opaque. I could imagine you saying it out of pure understandable frustration, just a funny wording in which you are trying to express exasperation. I could also imagine it in an angry, spiteful way. I could imagine it as pure hyperbole, and I could imagine it as totally sincere (though that would be such nonsense to be completely sincere about dropping Linux here that it would be hard to take you seriously if you meant it that way). I'm not going to make any assumptions about what you intended.

All I'm hoping to do by posting this is to encourage everyone to recognize how differently these conversations might go if you were dealing with each other in person. We need to humanize one another instead of just responding to the imaginary characters we place alongside the plain text.

Chris, as a developer, you surely get a disproportionate brunt of the most complaining folks. Friendly polite people are also those who will seek answers without hassling others. Those who waste your time or are rude are inherently those who bug you most. I have no reason to otherwise sympathize with your suggestion that Linux users are less polite or less thankful or anything else than users of other systems. Please drop your unfair stereotype.

Finally, it is simple human psychology here. If you respond to attacks with defensive threats, it doesn't lead to a positive result. It isn't fair, but to be successful you need to try to be respectful even when others are not.

I am really inspired by this project, by the way, and I have been considering donating, though I hadn't decided how much to pledge yet. As a new switcher to GNU/Linux, and as a music teacher, the idea of such an appealing program in a FLOSS format is extremely exciting. I *guarantee* that if you can put out betas that are even half of what you're planning, you will get loads of really sincere positive support from the community! And when I can really try the system enough to be convinced of its merit and realistic prospects, I'll be putting links to it on my website and encouraging my students to donate…

Just please try to come spend some time with folks who aren't bugging you with complaints. Most of us are wonderful respectful patient people…

Sincerely,
Aaron Wolf
Music teacher, scholar
http://wolftune.com

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Re: For those supporting OpenOctave...

Postby ccherrett » Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:33 pm

wolftune wrote:Wow, what a crazy phenomenon this internet world can be…

Chris (and everyone), I think we all need regular reminders that pure text does not convey emotion well. It's one reason to appreciate music: for it's emotional expression. It is far too easy to read someone's text with whatever emotion you suspect, and it may or may not be accurate.

As an observer here, I can easily see how the initial suspician and issues could be seen as really hurtful. Especially after the actual problems occurred, it is understandable that all the stuff leading up to that would be interpreted in an especially emotional way.

Chris, your threat to Linux in general is completely unwarranted and unprofessional. That said, it is emotionally opaque. I could imagine you saying it out of pure understandable frustration, just a funny wording in which you are trying to express exasperation. I could also imagine it in an angry, spiteful way. I could imagine it as pure hyperbole, and I could imagine it as totally sincere (though that would be such nonsense to be completely sincere about dropping Linux here that it would be hard to take you seriously if you meant it that way). I'm not going to make any assumptions about what you intended.

All I'm hoping to do by posting this is to encourage everyone to recognize how differently these conversations might go if you were dealing with each other in person. We need to humanize one another instead of just responding to the imaginary characters we place alongside the plain text.

Chris, as a developer, you surely get a disproportionate brunt of the most complaining folks. Friendly polite people are also those who will seek answers without hassling others. Those who waste your time or are rude are inherently those who bug you most. I have no reason to otherwise sympathize with your suggestion that Linux users are less polite or less thankful or anything else than users of other systems. Please drop your unfair stereotype.

Finally, it is simple human psychology here. If you respond to attacks with defensive threats, it doesn't lead to a positive result. It isn't fair, but to be successful you need to try to be respectful even when others are not.

I am really inspired by this project, by the way, and I have been considering donating, though I hadn't decided how much to pledge yet. As a new switcher to GNU/Linux, and as a music teacher, the idea of such an appealing program in a FLOSS format is extremely exciting. I *guarantee* that if you can put out betas that are even half of what you're planning, you will get loads of really sincere positive support from the community! And when I can really try the system enough to be convinced of its merit and realistic prospects, I'll be putting links to it on my website and encouraging my students to donate…

Just please try to come spend some time with folks who aren't bugging you with complaints. Most of us are wonderful respectful patient people…

Sincerely,


I really appreciate your thoughtful well written response.

I have so much more to say but truthfully, I need to get some work done. This strangeness has eaten a good chunk of the week.
Christopher Cherrett
Founder of The Open Octave Project
http://www.openoctave.org

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Re: For those supporting OpenOctave...

Postby i2productions » Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:16 am

I had never even heard of OpenOctave til reading this post. But after checking it out and reading through this thread, I don't think you're going about it the right way. You've got an open call for donations but say things like:

have personally funded a full time developer + myself to make openoctave for the last 6 years. So as you can see this project will move on with or without your support.


Someone that was suppporting you financially giving an opinion should not be ignored. If you have funded it and don't need support then you don't need to campaign. If you want to have a really nice in house DAW go for it, but don't expect a good fan base with all the negativity I've seen here.

I'm all for more tools and advancement of the overall open-source music ecosystem, but if it's going to be this negative I'll give my donations to a proven DAW project like Ardour!

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Re: For those supporting OpenOctave...

Postby jeffh » Sat Apr 14, 2012 1:11 am

wolftune wrote:Chris, your threat to Linux in general is completely unwarranted and unprofessional. That said, it is emotionally opaque. I could imagine you saying it out of pure understandable frustration, just a funny wording in which you are trying to express exasperation. I could also imagine it in an angry, spiteful way. I could imagine it as pure hyperbole, and I could imagine it as totally sincere (though that would be such nonsense to be completely sincere about dropping Linux here that it would be hard to take you seriously if you meant it that way). I'm not going to make any assumptions about what you intended.


^^^this

Unfortunately, Chris has already shown his/her true colors, which is apparently somebody who can't stand Linux and it's users, who apparently are "all the same".

I come from the GNU/GPL/Richard Stallman school of software philosophy, I believe that freedom to share and change software is a basic human right; I founded my software project in an attempt to address as many of Linux audio's shortcomings as I can, in hopes of attracting Windows and Mac users to the platform, and by extension to the philosophy. The LInux community has been very kind to me, but even if they hadn't, I would still support Linux just the same, because I'm not supporting individual people, I'm supporting a philosophy.

The talk of removing Linux support out of spite for Linux users wouldn't be nearly as much of a slap in the face if OO had been written from scratch, and wasn't a fork of Muse. By all means, go out and write the greatest DAW of all time, as long as you abide by the licenses of the software you forked, but don't be so shocked if the Linux community thinks you're an absolute c*nt for the way you're acting, and rightfully so.


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