Breaking changes in Carla Plugin Host

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Lyberta
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Re: Breaking changes in Carla Plugin Host

Postby Lyberta » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:19 pm

So Juce is now proprietary? Ugh.

glowrak guy
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Re: Breaking changes in Carla Plugin Host

Postby glowrak guy » Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:01 am

Makes sense to me, it shouldn't be your job to fix every daft plugin,
or half-tested app. vst3 support is no big deal, still half-baked anyway,
and can be handled by devs outside of linux. Doing what you do best,
without the extra balls and chains, can only be a good thing.
Cheers

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chaocrator
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Re: Breaking changes in Carla Plugin Host

Postby chaocrator » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:02 am

Lyberta wrote:So Juce is now proprietary? Ugh.

the short story: yes.
the long story: https://juce.com/get-juce

ubuntuuser
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Re: Breaking changes in Carla Plugin Host

Postby ubuntuuser » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:53 am

I don't know much about JUCE and what they are doing but one of the worst cases I've seen is Apple charging a developer fee before someone can build a Safari extension for personal use.

At least, that was my experience when trying to build a testing Safari extension.

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sadko4u
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Re: Breaking changes in Carla Plugin Host

Postby sadko4u » Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:06 pm

That's the another agrument to avoid third-party libraries in the long-live-targeted project.
That's why I've avoided JUCE and decided to write my own Toolkit for plugins: I've never trusted JUCE and hope that there are not so many people who caught into this trap.
Last edited by sadko4u on Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Breaking changes in Carla Plugin Host

Postby ubuntuuser » Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:09 pm

falkTX wrote:You can still use Juce with its GPLv3 mode, but it's getting harder and harder to do that...
You have to remove the tracking they added in their IDE/Project-Manager, then also remove the tracking and watermark on each generated project you create...
There's also this.... https://forum.juce.com/t/announcing-a-n ... dule/24764 (which was the last straw for me)


Now that I've read it, I agree that the tracking is not that great IMO.

Not that I'm going to use JUCE much, but when I ported over a vst to Linux I used your Distrho rather than Juce because Distrho looked like it would do the job (very well as it turned out) without all of that Juce overhead which doesn't appeal to me much.

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Re: Breaking changes in Carla Plugin Host

Postby ssj71 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:35 pm

I'll be honest, I understand the use of analytics. For a proprietary company it helps them make their software more appealing and their users happier with the experience (which helps a company feel proud of their work AND make money). I've been very frustrated in wanting to make a great product that users love but not having ability to get meaningful feedback, both with my FLOSS projects and with my products at my work and analytics would provide an effective way to do that...

BUT: when the devs in that thread recommend getting a lawyer to make sure you use that feature legally!? Red flag.

I won't say juce is evil, but it is certainly geared toward proprietary companies and I certainly don't need it.
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Markus
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Re: Breaking changes in Carla Plugin Host

Postby Markus » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:39 pm

falkTX wrote:You can still use Juce with its GPLv3 mode, but it's getting harder and harder to do that...
You have to remove the tracking they added in their IDE/Project-Manager, then also remove the tracking and watermark on each generated project you create...
There's also this.... https://forum.juce.com/t/announcing-a-n ... dule/24764 (which was the last straw for me)


I fully support and appreciate your decision.

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Re: Breaking changes in Carla Plugin Host

Postby chaocrator » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:42 pm

just noticed.
from my (software user) point of view, the most breaking change is the look of plugin parameters window.
i even was going to create an issue on github about increasing number of parameters per page, but now i love it.
thanks a lot, falkTX.
NewCarlaParamWindow.png
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Lyberta
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Re: Breaking changes in Carla Plugin Host

Postby Lyberta » Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:30 am

falkTX wrote:You can still use Juce with its GPLv3 mode, but it's getting harder and harder to do that...
You have to remove the tracking they added in their IDE/Project-Manager, then also remove the tracking and watermark on each generated project you create...
There's also this.... https://forum.juce.com/t/announcing-a-n ... dule/24764 (which was the last straw for me)


Lovely. I have removed all traces of Juce from my system.

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sadko4u
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Re: Breaking changes in Carla Plugin Host

Postby sadko4u » Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:47 am

Anyway, thanks for your job, Filipe!
What doesn't kill us, makes us stronger.
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barbouze
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Re: Breaking changes in Carla Plugin Host

Postby barbouze » Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:24 pm

Thanks a lot for having voiced your concerns about user privacy and safety, even if it seems to not be a problem for a lot of Juce users/devs :( . At least it has been said and maybe some will drop Juce for other toolkits.
On a more pleasant note, good job on Carla, as always! :D

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briandc
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Re: Breaking changes in Carla Plugin Host

Postby briandc » Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:08 am

I think it's safe to say that linux users have a particular interest in privacy, and freedom to share their works. Depending on the country one lives in, this may be more or less important too, as it's somewhat of a cultural thing as well. Here in Europe, people are (imho) more aware of privacy issues than in the US. Naivety perhaps?

This may seem like a tangent, but I think it was/is worth mentioning.

My support to falkTX in his decision.


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Re: Breaking changes in Carla Plugin Host

Postby folderol » Fri Nov 24, 2017 3:40 pm

Totally understand the dilemma, and agree this is the best way forward - not that my opinion matters :lol:

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Re: Breaking changes in Carla Plugin Host

Postby simonvanderveldt » Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:58 pm

@falktx Thanks for the update. Good stuff!

Nice to see a project get rid of JUCE, been disliking it more and more, mainly because of technical issues, but also because of their total disregard for Linux features/fixes and them rather spending time on "features" like developer and user tracking. So, good to see it gone!
I hope we can convince some plugins to switch to another framework (which would be DPF I guess).

Regarding VST3: I don't really care for it, but it shouldn't be too problematic to add given the GPL'd VST3 SDK, right? Or is that no good for hosts?

And splitting off the plugins makes sense, that's what they are plugins for, right? :)


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