vcvrack.com - open source modular

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thebutant
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Re: vcvrack.com - open source modular

Postby thebutant » Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:02 am

falkTX wrote:That might be a packaging issue, not sure how vcvrack downloads plugins (I don't want to register to yet another service).
Is there a list of plugins you think are kinda essential? I can just add them to the package as an update.

That's a great offer! I'll come back to it.
You see, I'm not sure that's where the problem is. When I opened the 0.5.1 build from KXStudio repos and logged in, it automatically downloaded and installed the plugins I had tried in a previous build*. These run flawlessly.

But when installing something new (like Grayscale, which is available through the plugin installer), or when downloading plugins and extracting them to the plugins folder (which seems to be the method of it), these don't show up.

I would think you needed to register to another service if no plugins showed up, but it seems to me that it's more a matter of getting vcvrack to search for and recognize new plugins.
Does any of the other vcvrackers in the forum know anything about this?
How do you install new plugins?

* which are, as you asked for essential plugins:
- Audible instruments
- Befaco
- E-Series
- Fundamental
But these are the only ones I tried, so I wouldn't know which else are must haves.

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falkTX
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Re: vcvrack.com - open source modular

Postby falkTX » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:53 pm

The plugins included come from the vcvrack package I have on kxstudio.
They're on /usr dir, so they're not writable or modifiable. Maybe that is the issue, if it tries to install files there.

thebutant
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Re: vcvrack.com - open source modular

Postby thebutant » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:16 pm

Ah, I see.
I was simply confused by the coincidence that these were the same plugins I have been trying earlier.

And I see it doesn't work to copy plugins into neither /usr/share/vcvrack nor /usr/lib/vcvrack/plugins. They still don't show up, even after trying the update button (I guess that one might check the internet rather than the folders).

I don't know what a good solution would be. Having to deal with all sorts of plugins seems like a hassle for you, and I guess some of the charm with a software like vcvrack is that people make or find plugins here and there to try out.
As I tried to, with the different little penguin zips from here: https://vcvrack.com/plugins.html

franlopez
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Re: vcvrack.com - open source modular

Postby franlopez » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:32 am

Third party Rack plugins should be installed in the ~/.Rack/plugins/ folder.

Doing that, I'm failing to load modules, but if I check the logs (~/.Rack/log.txt), I see these relevant lines:

Code: Select all

[info] Loading plugins from /home/fran/.Rack/plugins
[warning] Failed to load library /home/fran/.Rack/plugins/AS/plugin.so: /home/fran/.Rack/plugins/AS/plugin.so: undefined symbol: _ZN4rack11assetPluginEPNS_6PluginENSt7__cxx1112basic_stringIcSt11char_traitsIcESaIcEEE


I tried with other plugins and they threw the same error.

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falkTX
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Re: vcvrack.com - open source modular

Postby falkTX » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:31 am

ah, the wonders of C++ ABIs! :evil:

This means the plugins need to be compiled with the same C++ ABI version, this removes support for Ubuntu before 16.04 and Debian before Stretch.
(So Ubuntu 14.04 or Debian Jessie won't work).
The C++ ABI is going to change again (I am guessing in gcc-8), we should not have to deal with this on an opensource application.

There is no real solution for this. I'd have to build vcvrack the same way the official package does, and then hope all other developers build their code with the proper toolchain and flags...
Running random binaries like that is a security risk anyway, better if I disable the login and download of plugins on the kxstudio package to avoid confusion, brokenness and security issues.

thebutant
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Re: vcvrack.com - open source modular

Postby thebutant » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:45 pm

falkTX wrote:There is no real solution for this. I'd have to build vcvrack the same way the official package does, and then hope all other developers build their code with the proper toolchain and flags...

I'm sorry to hear that.
I see your new build is without login and update buttons - which is rather fine, I think. As it is now, your build supplies most of the plugins one can install through the plugin manager anyway. And it always feels better not having to make an account and log in to something.

So how do you reckon this will develop - will the plugins available be those provided through the package, or do you think there'll be a way of installing plugins user by user?

I have no intention of complaining or being unpatient with this, I'm simply curious.
I've been making music for hours with the build and its plugins as it is now. I'm truly grateful that you made vcvrack available through the kxstudio repos! :D

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falkTX
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Re: vcvrack.com - open source modular

Postby falkTX » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:48 pm

Better to have packages for those plugins.
The best solution I see is to have a -dev vcvrack package that provides the components needed to build plugins, then have a separate plugins in another package.
Since there is a central place that stores the list of available plugins, a script that goes through all of build to download&build is possible.
Then all of them can be added into a package.

thebutant
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Re: vcvrack.com - open source modular

Postby thebutant » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:13 pm

falkTX wrote:Better to have packages for those plugins.
The best solution I see is to have a -dev vcvrack package that provides the components needed to build plugins, then have a separate plugins in another package.
Since there is a central place that stores the list of available plugins, a script that goes through all of build to download&build is possible.
Then all of them can be added into a package.

Now that sounds great!
Hope it'll work out. :D

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sadko4u
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Re: vcvrack.com - open source modular

Postby sadko4u » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:29 am

falkTX wrote:There is no real solution for this.

The solution is always available. For example, use static libraries linkage or not to use C++'s 'modern' libraries like STL, Boost and another holy crap.

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falkTX
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Re: vcvrack.com - open source modular

Postby falkTX » Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:18 am

Yes, that is true.
But we cannot avoid those if the actual plugin API uses C++ stuff and STL, as is the case for VCVRack.

Taika-Kim
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Re: vcvrack.com - open source modular

Postby Taika-Kim » Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:47 am

Hi, I'm really new to Linux so maybe to most this is obvious, but: what is the advantage of installing VCV Rack from the KX Studio repositories versus just downloading it from their site. Besides updates handled automatically?

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CrocoDuck
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Re: vcvrack.com - open source modular

Postby CrocoDuck » Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:09 am

Taika-Kim wrote:Hi, I'm really new to Linux so maybe to most this is obvious, but: what is the advantage of installing VCV Rack from the KX Studio repositories versus just downloading it from their site. Besides updates handled automatically?


The Debian wiki puts it well on why it is better to prefer repo packages instead of downloaded blobs:

https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian

Mainly, the reason is that packages in the repos are built from source with all the correct flags to be optimally compatible with the operating system. Pre-built software instead is built with generic flags, and might perform sub-optimally. In addition to that, there is a security issue. Software from websites might be injected with malware, plus few more reasons too.
Check my Linux audio experiments on my SoundCloud.
Browse my AUR packages.
Fancying a swim in the pond?

thebutant
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Re: vcvrack.com - open source modular

Postby thebutant » Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:06 pm

CrocoDuck wrote:
Taika-Kim wrote:Hi, I'm really new to Linux so maybe to most this is obvious, but: what is the advantage of installing VCV Rack from the KX Studio repositories versus just downloading it from their site. Besides updates handled automatically?

. . . plus few more reasons too.

Good answer, CrocoDuck. And I can add one more reason - a pattern from my own life:
I wish to install a piece of software from github, from a tarball, a deb package or whatever.
This software requires quite a few dependencies. I install them, and in order to install this one dependency I need to install this other library or package.
Ok, I install everything needed.
But oh, the software won't run anyway because something wasn't compatible, something was missing or whatever.
And even if I remember some of the dependencies I just installed, I often don't remember all the packages they were dependent of and which were also installed. So my computer suddenly has lots of random libraries here and there.

No big harm done. Just that a repo handles things a lot better (as CrocoDuck also wrote).

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CrocoDuck
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Re: vcvrack.com - open source modular

Postby CrocoDuck » Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:35 pm

Yep, tracking down dependencies and keep the system clean can be a pain when building from source. In fact, in that case, I prefer to build my own packages.
Check my Linux audio experiments on my SoundCloud.
Browse my AUR packages.
Fancying a swim in the pond?

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chaocrator
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Re: vcvrack.com - open source modular

Postby chaocrator » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:58 am

CrocoDuck wrote:Yep, tracking down dependencies and keep the system clean can be a pain when building from source. In fact, in that case, I prefer to build my own packages.

moreover, it's better to build on a separate partition with another installation, so the working system is always kept clean.
packages are always better for tracking dependencies, since system updates often silently break the stuff just built from source.


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