Ardour 5

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chaocrator
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Re: Ardour 5

Post by chaocrator »

Luc wrote:
chaocrator wrote:ZASFX is excellent, but too complex for commercial success. it just does not conform any conventional concepts of „user friendly“.
You think that Zynaddsubfx is more complex than ridiculously popular u-He or Rob Papen stuff? That doesn't make any sense. Have you per chance mistaken Zynaddsubfx for something else?
never looked at all that popular stuff since the days of rebirth :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
(the only exception was FM-7.)
but.
i think ZASFX gives way too much freedom of choice to user (and typically that's not good for commercial success).
and yes, it is more complex than all that popular 2-oscillator subtractive synths, at least because a typical user's brain is not trained to work with it, and its workflow is completely different.
(not as complex as supercollider though :mrgreen: )
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Re: Ardour 5

Post by ssj71 »

jonetsu wrote:revisit Yoshimi (probably, instead of Zynaddsubfx)
Not sure why one or the other, both are actively maintained.
jonetsu wrote: Maybe the perceived complexity has to do with how the UI is structured.
Zyn is near the cusp of releasing a new totally redesigned UI. Perhaps you will find it more inviting.
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Re: Ardour 5

Post by Luc »

I remember when I was a very fresh beginner with Linux music stuff, only 2 years ago, I was confused by several things including JACK, but I got along with Zynaddsubfx very well in under 15 minutes. I would say that it's maybe a little ugly compared to the commercial stuff, but not complex.

The new GUI certainly looks better. I just hope it's not dumbed down in terms of functionality, because it doesn't need to be.
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Re: Ardour 5

Post by jonetsu »

ssj71 wrote:Not sure why one or the other, both are actively maintained.
I had the impression zyn was no longer developed. Which is not the case. I actually tried it and like the sounds, especially the Italian ones.

But it does interfere with Ardour (Mixbus 32C) so I am not certain for its constant use.
ssj71 wrote:Zyn is near the cusp of releasing a new totally redesigned UI. Perhaps you will find it more inviting.
Looks much nicer, even for 2D graphics. This said, I do not yet create sounds. Although it is practical to have an UI that's at least inviting to do so.
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Re: Ardour 5

Post by jonetsu »

Luc wrote:I remember when I was a very fresh beginner with Linux music stuff, only 2 years ago, I was confused by several things including JACK, but I got along with Zynaddsubfx very well in under 15 minutes. I would say that it's maybe a little ugly compared to the commercial stuff, but not complex.

The new GUI certainly looks better. I just hope it's not dumbed down in terms of functionality, because it doesn't need to be.
Well, I cannot say this. even after watching the 4-part tutorial on ACE by Dan Worrall (youtube) I still do not understand so much for instance the use of the mapping generator. So, 15 minutes to understand a synth to create nice sounds is way off for me. And this is ACE. Not even Zebra2 or Bazille (see attached). But their user interfaces are inviting nonetheless.
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jonetsu
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Re: Ardour 5

Post by jonetsu »

Luc wrote:You think that Zynaddsubfx is more complex than ridiculously popular u-He or Rob Papen stuff? That doesn't make any sense. Have you per chance mistaken Zynaddsubfx for something else?
Are you mentionning Rob Papen because these synths are available for Linux ?

I'm asking because all u-he synths are avaiable for Linux although not shown as such on their website.
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Re: Ardour 5

Post by sysrqer »

jonetsu wrote: But it does interfere with Ardour (Mixbus 32C) so I am not certain for its constant use.
?
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Re: Ardour 5

Post by Luc »

jonetsu wrote:
Luc wrote:You think that Zynaddsubfx is more complex than ridiculously popular u-He or Rob Papen stuff? That doesn't make any sense. Have you per chance mistaken Zynaddsubfx for something else?
Are you mentionning Rob Papen because these synths are available for Linux ?

I'm asking because all u-he synths are avaiable for Linux although not shown as such on their website.
No, I mentioned those because they are very popular, and I don't believe that most of them have a very simple interface.

Not that I have seem many. I saw/listened to a few on YouTube and didn't like their sound. They seem to be more targeted at acid house or pinball machine music producers, if you know what I mean. I am a lot more interested in the kind of sounds that come with Zynaddsubfx, for example. I love filters that can generate weird sounds, but only if they are somewhat unusual. I hate those dramatic pads that seem to have been all the rage for the last 10~15 years.

But note that you can run many Windows plugins on Linux. You're going to need Carla or Airwave. They have different approaches. If you're playing DAWless, you will have to use Carla. If you use a DAW, by all means go with Airwave. I have hundreds of Windows plugins on my machine, all freeware. I would say that 3 or 4% of them won't work. Everything else does, and very well. I have tested a handful of commercial demos and most of them work, too, though with seemingly a higher rate of failure.

Bazille wasn't a very good choice for your argumentation. I see it's a modular synth, and all modulars are complicated. That is never the GUI's fault.
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Re: Ardour 5

Post by folderol »

What I find unpleasant with a very large number of UIs these days is this obsession with shades of ... black! I'm reminded of Zaphod Beebelbrox's complaint about the Heart of Gold computer. "It's a black computer with a black screen with black text on it. I can't even tell if it's on because it has a black light." :(
The Yoshimi guy {apparently now an 'elderly'}
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Re: Ardour 5

Post by Luc »

I agree with you. Tracktion 6 came with several themes, most of them with light colors and quite refreshing.

Then Tracktion 7 was released with... one single rather dark theme. :x
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Re: Ardour 5

Post by jonetsu »

Luc wrote: No, I mentioned those because they are very popular, and I don't believe that most of them have a very simple interface.

Not that I have seem many. I saw/listened to a few on YouTube and didn't like their sound. They seem to be more targeted at acid house or pinball machine music producers, if you know what I mean. I am a lot more interested in the kind of sounds that come with Zynaddsubfx, for example. I love filters that can generate weird sounds, but only if they are somewhat unusual. I hate those dramatic pads that seem to have been all the rage for the last 10~15 years.
Well, that's a broad generalization, especially if you include the u-he synths in there. See, hear, The Unfinished Zebra2/HZ Borealis soundset (for one) walkthough for instance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HYM3Z1u7RA

(The guy takes 45 minutes to walk through the sounds he created, which is nice.) The key might be to search for soundsets using the keyword 'cinematic'.
Luc wrote: Bazille wasn't a very good choice for your argumentation. I see it's a modular synth, and all modulars are complicated. That is never the GUI's fault.
I do not see the point, really. That one uses wires or drop down menus to make assignements, the assignements are still there. Eg. many synths are actually 'modular' as they offer users many ways to combine components together. I'm almost certain this is the case with zyn also. For instance, if there are multiple EG, the user might have the choice to use one, or both. Same with LFOs, use them or not. This is also modular in nature.

Moreover, Bazille was used because it has everything on one screen. And you can switch to another screen for more. The comparison was to be made with an application that uses many 'popup' screens as in zyn, not with the underlying architecture which do have common points though.

Zebra2 could have been used instead, it would have offered the same comparison. I did not want to use a simpler synth such as ACE or Diva to comapre with zyn.

Airwave: That's nice to know. When I come around to updating the Linux system to the latest I will consider it seriously, as well as taking the time it will certainly take to get it working :)

Do you run anything in Airwave say, from Melda, or from Waves ?
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Re: Ardour 5

Post by jonetsu »

sysrqer wrote:
jonetsu wrote: But it does interfere with Ardour (Mixbus 32C) so I am not certain for its constant use.
?
If a metaphor can be used...

Yes, zyn seems to ask Ardour (Mixbus 32C) to have discussions at the Jackd National Assembly on a regular basis. Only when things are settled can Ardour (Mixbus 32C) go back to work, in this case showing signs of life to the user. And that takes seconds, sometimes up to 10 seconds.

I still have to run more tests but, the initial feedback regarding this is to not include in a project until this thing is cleared out. One test would include the latest 5.x Ardour.

Of course, this initial thing never happened with other synths, so I compare with past experience, not out of the blue.
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Re: Ardour 5

Post by sysrqer »

I'm sorry I have no idea what you're talking about.
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Re: Ardour 5

Post by jonetsu »

Sorry if it is confusing.

Simply, it is:


1) You want to do stuff in Ardour and are using zyn

2) You can't, it looks stalled, dead, for seconds at a time.


Compared with:


1) You want to do stuff in Ardour and are using Bazille, Diva, ACE, DiscoveryPro, Zebra2, Vertigo

2) You can



This is *NOT* a comparison between Open Source and commercial products. Commercial products are only used for comparison of usability.
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Re: Ardour 5

Post by sysrqer »

I don't do much midi in ardour but I just tested it now and I don't get any kind of problems like you describe, it works as responsively as I would expect any other synth to.
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