Linux REAPER works!

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funkmuscle
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Re: Linux REAPER works!

Postby funkmuscle » Tue Feb 09, 2016 10:46 pm

ssj71 wrote:
funkmuscle wrote:Also, you didn't mention why Reaper over native programs like Ardour and Qtractor?
I wanna make sure I'm using the right stuff...


The point of this thread is that now reaper is also a native linux program. No more wine. It won't run windows binaries, at least not without some hacky VST bridge stuff and that may not even be possible (I never touch the stuff). Its just another option that could possibly help people who have considered using linux for audio to make the switch. Its just like bitwig supporting linux, another commercial player that is supporting our OS. As more companies do so I suspect it will draw the attention of plugin devs. Whether this will generate more open source stuff, we could probably argue all day about it. In fact almost everything I wrote is kinda assuming... Still, I see it as a positive event even though I'm personally not very interested. It is competition for Ardour and Qtractor but loses in the licence category ;)


thanx ssj71... Reaper is quite popular so like you said, devs of windozes VSTs, the free ones at least may go open source..

glowrak guy
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Re: Linux REAPER works!

Postby glowrak guy » Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:43 am

funkmuscle wrote:
glowrak guy wrote:If you are referring to free windoze music things, these developers now offer a great range
of free instruments and effects:
Ugo
Krakli
Blue Cat
Melda
AlgoMusic

Oatmeal and Synth1 offer a vast array of presets, and are great
for achieving new sounds. Some search engine skills required
due to passage of time, mortality etc


thanx for the info.. these vsts needing wine or they are native-vsts?

Also, you didn't mention why Reaper over native programs like Ardour and Qtractor?
I wanna make sure I'm using the right stuff...

Those are windows related. Native linux vsts include
zynaddsubfx
helm
oxefm
Most U-he instruments (TyrellN6, Podolski and Zebralette are free)
discoDSP Discovery Pro, and Bliss 'true' sampler
dexed
tal noisemaker
obxd
pianoteq
loomer aspect
amsynth
tunefish
tonespace
'and more' I'm sure

When I started using reaper, it 'just worked', and I was lucky, owning
linux compatible hardware. At the time (years ago), other linux daws were primitive,
and there were tunes between my ears, seeking escape, and time was too short
to investigate alternatives. I do appreciate that rnbc spent a lot of effort
getting U-he multi-plugins to work in qtractor! And will rely on it
more in the future.

I just scratch the surface of reaper, and if it ain't broke,
I don't attempt fixing it. I once strapped a logitech joypad to my leg,
as reaper user 'fergo' had patched in joypad support, and had a blast using a joystick
to modulate algomusic's M42 X-Y synth distortion, while using midi-learned buttons, to to trigger it's sounds

Comically, some windoze folks who rant about linux being too complex,
think nothing of switching from complex daw to even more complex daw, at the drop
of a hat, or a whispered namm tweet. In audio, jack-of-all-trades/master-of-none
can be a carreer buster...the competition is fierce.
Cheers

glowrak guy
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Re: Linux REAPER works!

Postby glowrak guy » Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:51 am

And then there are those shady engineers who have pro-tools on the show-me screen,
and have reaper on the secret screen :wink:

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funkmuscle
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Re: Linux REAPER works!

Postby funkmuscle » Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:08 am

glowrak guy wrote:And then there are those shady engineers who have pro-tools on the show-me screen,
and have reaper on the secret screen :wink:


yep, I've seen that before!!


to me Reaper is diffecult.. Ardour just worked for me so I guess more flavours of DAW, the better!

glowrak guy
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Re: Linux REAPER works!

Postby glowrak guy » Wed Feb 10, 2016 4:28 am

To me, the single best thing about reaper, is

right-click the open area upper left, and choose
'insert virtual instrument on new track',
and it presents you with the track, and the open vst folder.

Bitwig opens with a track in place, and a panel where you drag/drop
a plugin from the browser list. I'd love ardour to have either function,
it would make it that much more attractive when feeling inspired.

To some degree, any daw that allows opening a saved populated session upon startup,
simplies start-up things so much, that other features are more important.
Reaper is criticized for too many menu items, and too many configuration options,
that make it a challenge to piece things together. So far, I haven't needed
a huge list of features. Getting 6 tracks a few db this side of absolute mayhem,
is hard enough to keep me busy.

zynaddsubfx as a linux vst, with bliss able to sample it's multitimbral goodness, is a gamechanger.
Now if someone can get hydrogen in the same boat... :shock:

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Re: Linux REAPER works!

Postby PatS » Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:06 pm

Great to hear all this.
For me, Reaper has been the only reason to keep a copy of Windows and live with a dual-boot system. Yes, I've tried it under Wine and it worked OK, but I never got to the point where I could take full advantage of the Linux/audio/jack (KXStudio) ecosystem and use it modularly with other jack programs (BTW, any advice on that? Especially regarding session management?) It's true, I probably never tried hard enough.
So after having been a myth all these years, native Linux Reaper becoming reality is big news to me.

Is it halfway stable and usable? The Readme (in the tar.xz file) indicates it's in heavy development stage.
Does it support jack?
I'd love to find out for myself, but not sure how to install it in KX.

ssj71
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Re: Linux REAPER works!

Postby ssj71 » Wed Feb 10, 2016 4:29 pm

glowrak guy wrote:right-click the open area upper left, and choose
'insert virtual instrument on new track',
and it presents you with the track, and the open vst folder.

Don't want to derail the thread, but in ardour the add track dialog you just select type of track and if you select midi you can also select an instrument plugin. 3 clicks seems reasonable to me. :)
_ssj71

music: https://soundcloud.com/ssj71
My plugins are Infamous! http://ssj71.github.io/infamousPlugins
I just want to get back to making music!

glowrak guy
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Re: Linux REAPER works!

Postby glowrak guy » Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:01 pm

I just did a quick comparison, and from the desktop, it took 11 actions to reach
a stereo midi instrument gui in A4, and 8 with reaper. But reaper had sound, and A4 was silent.
So off to the connections department, and the labeling is vertical, but upside down,
and then some diagonals thrown in for even more gui oddity. Plus extra naming conventions to fathom...
little wonder that ardour, after all these years, is still an outpost, while reaper is a metropolis,
and bitwig is getting established as the linux powerhouse.

I realize I could invest time in mastering ardour, but even then, the range of
instruments is quite limited compared to what reaper allows for, and immediate
usability sells better than immediate twiddling. Qtractor is a far better second choice,
for me, as the U-he/discoDSP plugins run in horizontal goodness, without exasperation.
The next generation of musicians will be noted for demanding instant gratification,
and the ardour team needs to make progress in that area.

Beyond all that, I'm not convinced 'linux reaper' is of much value. It appears to be
an outsiders project that is tolerated, but not actively supported, by the reaper team.
With bitwig, the linux version seems to keep pace with it's mac/pc siblings,
and the devs are receptive to outsiders providing help. If the small reaper team
commits to do a commercial linux port, then umso besser, but I think
such energy is better spent perfecting the core product, and let wine keep
providing improving hostel services. It works, it ain't broke, so why fix it?
Cheers

glowrak guy
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Re: Linux REAPER works!

Postby glowrak guy » Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:58 am

PatS wrote: I never got to the point where I could take full advantage of the Linux/audio/jack (KXStudio) ecosystem and use it modularly with other jack programs (BTW, any advice on that?

I've got bitwig playing Zebra2, routed to rakarrack,
and rakarrack routed to Reaper, with the greatCM Fuzz
distortion effect loaded, with Hydrogen playing a gamelan kit, and all the parts recorded
with timemachine. There is a lot of functionality and
versatility to connect. Mind boggles, even on good days.

Just for the fun of it, I just started qtractor, and it's
transport was moving along with hydrogen, so might as well
load a zynaddsubfx sound with some nice movement, (Falling Stars from Mysterious 3)
hold the sustain pedal, and pray for more cpu!
Nice that I could hear when the system was choking,
and ease off the pedal before things locked up solid.
Not bad, three linux daws, each with a great plugin,
and hydrogen, rakarrack, and a recorder app!

I wonder if you can run three daws and standalone extras using windoze?

Reaper is a versatile linux rompler, and a nice effects rack,
and doesn't hog a lot of resources. Nice to find qtractor and bitwig
cooperating. The order I started things was
bitwig with zebra2, rakarrack, reaper with cmfuzz, hydrogen,
then timemachine, then qtractor with zynaddsubfx.

It's fun to experiment. Just keep a fire extinguisher handy.
Cheers

danboid
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Re: Linux REAPER works!

Postby danboid » Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:33 pm

funkmuscle wrote:and that's why I hate when I see Linux stuff ported to Windblows.. not saying we shouldn't but Mac and Winblows users are quick to love the ported Linux stuff but do we see that in return?
Why Reaper? Don't get me wrong, I have it on my Winblows machine as I need it to help a friend out who is just starting to dive into recording for his video based business. Reaper is amazing so so is Ardour, Qtractor, Rosegarden, etc.. Reaper for Linux, does it mean we can now the use of Win VSTs?

just inquiring and trying to see if I'm missing something.. :mrgreen:


What we see in return is:

* More users = bigger community = more potential support from other users and plugin vendors

* More supported platforms leads to more potential devs

* Easier cross-platform co-operation

Even though I'll prob never use it, I think the best thing to happen to Ardour since it gained MIDI support was it gaining preliminary windows support. Whilst Ardour still doesn't officially support Windows, there have been 1000's who have discounted even trying Ardour because it lacked any Win support.

Cross platform apps can be seen as "gateway drugs" for potential Linux converts. If they can start by using app X under Win/OSX first it will ease their transition to Linux.

If I'm deciding between two equally-featured apps but one is Linux-only I'm much more likely to choose the cross-platform option as it makes life easier.
Are you new to Linux Audio? This manual explains how to install KXStudio, set up and use JACK, mimimize latency, lists the best Linux AV apps and much more all in a concise and easy to understand format.

http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/kxstudio_manual

danboid
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Re: Linux REAPER works!

Postby danboid » Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:35 pm

PatS wrote:Is it halfway stable and usable? The Readme (in the tar.xz file) indicates it's in heavy development stage.
Does it support jack?


Read the first post in this thread
Are you new to Linux Audio? This manual explains how to install KXStudio, set up and use JACK, mimimize latency, lists the best Linux AV apps and much more all in a concise and easy to understand format.

http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/kxstudio_manual

danboid
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Re: Linux REAPER works!

Postby danboid » Fri Feb 12, 2016 1:39 pm

glowrak guy wrote:Beyond all that, I'm not convinced 'linux reaper' is of much value. It appears to be
an outsiders project that is tolerated, but not actively supported, by the reaper team.
With bitwig, the linux version seems to keep pace with it's mac/pc siblings,
and the devs are receptive to outsiders providing help. If the small reaper team
commits to do a commercial linux port, then umso besser, but I think
such energy is better spent perfecting the core product, and let wine keep
providing improving hostel services. It works, it ain't broke, so why fix it?
Cheers


Not everyone can afford Bitwig and Ardour / qtractor / MusE etc just don't cut it for some.

Others like me can't bear to depend upon wine or VMs and so insist upon native software for the best performance and stability, or at least that will be the case when the Linux port matures.
Are you new to Linux Audio? This manual explains how to install KXStudio, set up and use JACK, mimimize latency, lists the best Linux AV apps and much more all in a concise and easy to understand format.

http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/kxstudio_manual

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Re: Linux REAPER works!

Postby funkmuscle » Fri Feb 12, 2016 2:15 pm

There is also the danger of cross platforms being that since this Linux program runs on Microsoft Windows and Apple's Mac, why should I make my plugins for Linux?
Ardour and Mixbus, what did he get out of that on? Now a program that already runs on Linux but now it comes with a very nice mixer? Again I'm not arguing the fact I am just curious to see if this cross-platform thing is actually benefiting the Linux community.
A lot of us are still using wine because they're certain plugins that we just can't get on Linux. It's a very hard sell to other platform developers to actually open source their programs.
Again, I'm not arguing the fact but I'm trying to figure out if we, the Lennox community benefited in a major way from the other platforms users and developers or is it the other way around, they are benefiting more because we are now adding more to a large large library of audio software that's available on the other two platforms?
Reaper is a very nice program because like I had mentioned earlier I do have it running on my test Windows box. I think it's going back about 5 years now I've heard the rumors of them making a native Linux version and it's just now hearing about the development of something that may not take off.
Let's hope that we do get a positive outcome of it all.because you guys are right, the more developers from other platforms looking at Linux as a solid base for audio, the happier we are all going to be so fingers crossed!

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Re: Linux REAPER works!

Postby ssj71 » Fri Feb 12, 2016 6:12 pm

funkmuscle wrote:There is also the danger of cross platforms being that since this Linux program runs on Microsoft Windows and Apple's Mac, why should I make my plugins for Linux?

I don't think that's the case. I think the more likely thought process is a whole bunch of [Ardour/Reaper/Bitwig/etc] users are using linux. Why don't I target them too? Devs usually want people to use their stuff.

funkmuscle wrote:Ardour and Mixbus, what did he get out of that on? Now a program that already runs on Linux but now it comes with a very nice mixer?

Ardour was funded heavily by Harrison for their work. IIRC that came at a time when Ardour was struggling financially.

funkmuscle wrote:Again I'm not arguing the fact I am just curious to see if this cross-platform thing is actually benefiting the Linux community.
A lot of us are still using wine because they're certain plugins that we just can't get on Linux. It's a very hard sell to other platform developers to actually open source their programs.

I think its nearly impossible to get numbers on this or even detangle the huge web of cause and effect. Everything effects everything in a community. I figure the more exposure that there are audio apps for linux the better. I think a lot of users and devs don't realize how much linux can do for audio.

funkmuscle wrote:Again, I'm not arguing the fact but I'm trying to figure out if we, the Lennox community benefited in a major way from the other platforms users and developers or is it the other way around, they are benefiting more because we are now adding more to a large large library of audio software that's available on the other two platforms?

I think we benefit more than the other platforms. We have much more to gain than they do if nothing else. Whether its a program that windows users have that moves to linux and brings some of those users with it, or its open source programs moving to the other side and allowing windows users see how great freedom can be, I think we benefit either way.

funkmuscle wrote:Let's hope that we do get a positive outcome of it all.because you guys are right, the more developers from other platforms looking at Linux as a solid base for audio, the happier we are all going to be so fingers crossed!

agreed.
_ssj71

music: https://soundcloud.com/ssj71
My plugins are Infamous! http://ssj71.github.io/infamousPlugins
I just want to get back to making music!

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Re: Linux REAPER works!

Postby funkmuscle » Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:35 pm

Spencer, thank you for actually going deep into details on this for me! You've actually answered my question because that's a question I've asked many times over the past few years but I had to be very careful because some of the answers I got back, it seems like I offended people that's why I kept saying I am just curious.

I have always been curious to why Linux developers wanted to develop for multiple platforms and that is so honest when you said developers want everybody using their product. Very honest answer! Now I wish the developers of a lot of Windows and Mac Plugins would think like you and all the other developers here.

So yes, agreed!


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