Shuriken Beat Slicer

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RockHopper
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Re: Shuriken Beat Slicer

Post by RockHopper »

Well, I got to the bottom of the "AUBIO ERROR: Not implemented" problem. Shuriken is calling a function that is implemented in aubio 0.4.1 but which simply displays an error message in 0.4.0 stating that the function hasn't been implemented yet!

I tried installing 0.4.1 from the Utopic repo but unfortunately there were unresolvable dependencies, so it looks like I need to repackage 0.4.1 for Trusty. Hang in there folks...

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headwar
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Re: Shuriken Beat Slicer

Post by headwar »

Good to read !

Another solution would be to create a function that does what the aubio seek(0) function does and kind of "#IFDEF" (but at runtime) the version of aubio : if version < 4.1 use your version, else use the aubio one.
Of course, this suggestion stands only if the function can easily be implemented by you ;) (or if you can copy/paste and use the code added in aubio between 4.0.1 and 4.1)
This would allow :
1) less dependancy for the average Ubuntu (maybe other distros too) user
2) for you not to be responsible for the aubio installation and maintaining it on your PPA
3) the "#ifdef"ification would allow for auto-deprecation of your version of the function as aubio evolves, corrects bugs, optimizes, etc...

Those are 2 cents well spent ! ;)
regards,
HW

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Re: Shuriken Beat Slicer

Post by RockHopper »

I did think about doing something similar to what you're suggesting, but in the end decided that repackaging aubio was the better solution. 0.4.1 It was released not too long after 0.4.0 and has several bug fixes and improvements. No doubt 0.4.1 will appear in the official Trusty repos sooner or later, but for now I've packaged and uploaded it to the PPA along with a repackaged Shuriken that depends on aubio >= 0.4.1

N.B. while testing in a fresh install of KXStudio 14.04, Shuriken popped up an error message on launch about not being able to connect to the default device. However, after configuring JACK to use the correct sound card, Shuriken started normally (Shuriken defaults to using ALSA, and JACK was hogging the card which ALSA uses by default).

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headwar
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Re: Shuriken Beat Slicer

Post by headwar »

Good point about aubio...

I'm off my Linux computer for a few days but will try Shuriken again ASAP (around next wednesday). Thanks again for your quick answer.

Regards,
Hw

motosega
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Re: Shuriken Beat Slicer

Post by motosega »

ok, i've got it working, on the latest kxstudio on a desktop computer with a proper screen, i'll try again on my avlinux netbook when i get a chance.

looking fantastic! it seems like a really well thought out program, even with a decent online help.

its a pitty i can't try out export yet, but you've definatly got my attention with this beautiful teaser realease!
i think most of us would be happy with just midi and wav export for starters.

i noticed that i can only do 'find onsets' or 'find beats' once, even if i change settings. the only way to get it to work again is to do 'undo'


i know its a long shot, but are you planning to support akai mpc .pgm files as an export format? .pgm is the pad/layer assignment format. akai mpc can already read wav and midi.

theres is extensive documentation here: http://mybunnyhug.com/fileformats/pgm/
and an open source implementation (java) here: http://mpcmaid.sourceforge.net/

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headwar
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Re: Shuriken Beat Slicer

Post by headwar »

Hi,

It works for me too ! ;) Thanks again !

As motosega says, it looks very promising, and already does a lot !

Here are my constructive comments :
- Beeing forced to undo before refinding beats or offsets is not conveninent [agree with motosega]
- Dotted lines on zoom [already in your todo list on github]
- I'd like to have a playhead to better help locate a sound
- the beat and onset findings are great, but would be better if they were (optionnaly ?) set to find the nearest zero-crossing (would avoid the clicking on playing samples)
- I don't know if it makes sense, but maybe (long shot) the threshold slider could be vertical along the waveform, with a ruler crossing the waveform to really "see" the threshold
- the "calc" button to find the original beat doesn't work [or I can't get my way around it...], before or after "finding beats".
- binding the zoom function to ctrl + mousewheel would be great, especially if the zoom was focused on the mouse pointer
- [space] to play / stop would be great too !

I know it's a lot of comments, it doesn't make Shuriken less great at all ! Keep up the good work ;) And I'm still available for a translation.

regards,
HW

[Edit] P.S. the way pieces can be moved around after cutting is GREAT !

tatch
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Re: Shuriken Beat Slicer

Post by tatch »

I updated to 14.04 just to try this out :) seems like a pretty neat tool with a pretty intuitive interface. If this could be integrated with Non-timeline and/or ardour via a rightclick->edit in shuriken that'd be pretty slick (though I think ardour may already have something like that builtin).

What originally grabbed my attention was the use of timestretching in shuriken--given the interface I was thinking of an ableton live-esque time-warping function. Is that (or could it be) on the roadmap for shuriken? That would be ++++++++++++ .

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Re: Shuriken Beat Slicer

Post by RockHopper »

A new release is out with fixes for many of the issues raised in this thread so far, including support for smaller screen sizes, ability to export audio slices, plus there's no longer any need to undo “Find Onsets” before clicking “Find Beats”. See OP for link.

motosega wrote: i know its a long shot, but are you planning to support akai mpc .pgm files as an export format? .pgm is the pad/layer assignment format. akai mpc can already read wav and midi.
An export option for Akai MPC .pgm files sounds like a nice feature. Thanks for those links!

headwar wrote: - Dotted lines on zoom [already in your todo list on github]
- I'd like to have a playhead to better help locate a sound
- the beat and onset findings are great, but would be better if they were (optionaly ?) set to find the nearest zero-crossing (would avoid the clicking on playing samples)
- I don't know if it makes sense, but maybe (long shot) the threshold slider could be vertical along the waveform, with a ruler crossing the waveform to really "see" the threshold
- binding the zoom function to ctrl + mousewheel would be great, especially if the zoom was focused on the mouse pointer
- [space] to play / stop would be great too !
Some good points there.

headwar wrote: the "calc" button to find the original beat doesn't work [or I can't get my way around it...], before or after "finding beats"
Does this happen with all samples? Try changing the detection settings and see if that makes any difference.

tatch wrote: If this could be integrated with Non-timeline and/or ardour via a rightclick->edit in shuriken that'd be pretty slick (though I think ardour may already have something like that builtin).
Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean! What should happen when the user does a right-click->edit in Shuriken?

tatch wrote: What originally grabbed my attention was the use of timestretching in shuriken--given the interface I was thinking of an ableton live-esque time-warping function. Is that (or could it be) on the roadmap for shuriken? That would be ++++++++++++ .
Well, Shuriken isn't going to turn into an Ableton Live rip-off, though being able to time-stretch individual sections of audio and quantise beats would certainly be a nice feature.

tatch
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Re: Shuriken Beat Slicer

Post by tatch »

tatch wrote: If this could be integrated with Non-timeline and/or ardour via a rightclick->edit in shuriken that'd be pretty slick (though I think ardour may already have something like that builtin).
Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean! What should happen when the user does a right-click->edit in Shuriken?
Well this sort of integration would actually have to come from non-timeline or ardour rather than shuriken. I was just thinking aloud that it would be cool to be able to use shuriken on audio files that are in the timelines of those two programs... so the rightclicking behavior would be implemented by non-timeline or ardour.
tatch wrote: What originally grabbed my attention was the use of timestretching in shuriken--given the interface I was thinking of an ableton live-esque time-warping function. Is that (or could it be) on the roadmap for shuriken? That would be ++++++++++++ .
Well, Shuriken isn't going to turn into an Ableton Live rip-off, though being able to time-stretch individual sections of audio and quantise beats would certainly be a nice feature.
I don't expect it to either, I think shuriken makes the most sense in LAU as a small, specialized tool. I'm strictly talking about the timestretching functionality in Live eg like this.

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headwar
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Re: Shuriken Beat Slicer

Post by headwar »

Hi,

Great improvements in 0.2 ! Thanks for the excellent work.

I second Tatch, it would be awesome to be able to use Shuriken as an easy quantizer, knowing that every tool needed is already here (aubio + rubberband). I got some bass recordings that would love to be shurikened ! ;)

Regards,
Hw

PS will be off for a week but will follow this thread !

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Re: Shuriken Beat Slicer

Post by RockHopper »

tatch wrote: I think shuriken makes the most sense in LAU as a small, specialized tool. I'm strictly talking about the timestretching functionality in Live eg like this.
Thanks for that link. Yes, I can picture something similar working in Shuriken... Time-folding perhaps?!

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Re: Shuriken Beat Slicer

Post by motosega »

fantastic! export is working!

some things that would be usefull:

it'd be great if it would audition the selected slice automaticaly.

maybe it would be handy to be able to unslice, (go back to the unsliced sample)

since bpm detection is hard, it would be helpfull to have a way of specifying how many bars the sample was.

great work! i'm really looking forward to seeing this develop into a great peice of software!

i'm hoping midi file export is next on the list...

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Re: Shuriken Beat Slicer

Post by RockHopper »

Hi motosega, I've added an export option for Akai MPC1000/2500 .pgm files and was hoping you'd be brave enough to test the latest code on GitHub!

https://github.com/rock-hopper/shuriken

Sample rate conversion has now been added: you can load audio files with any sample rate into Shuriken and it will automatically convert samples to 16-bit 44.1kHz WAV files when exporting an Akai pgm. I still need to add an option to export MIDI files.

motosega wrote: it'd be great if it would audition the selected slice automaticaly.
Just to be clear, are you saying it would be more convenient if you could click on an audio slice, hear the sound, then move the slice straight away without releasing the mouse button, rather than having to click the "Audition" button then click the "Move" button?

motosega wrote: maybe it would be handy to be able to unslice, (go back to the unsliced sample)
At the moment you can undo all operations including slicing the waveform. You can also slice the waveform, move the slices around, and then join them all back together with the keyboard shortcuts "Ctrl+A" followed by "J".

motosega wrote: since bpm detection is hard, it would be helpfull to have a way of specifying how many bars the sample was.
Yes, that sounds like a good idea.

motosega wrote: i'm hoping midi file export is next on the list...
Working on it! :)

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Re: Shuriken Beat Slicer

Post by motosega »

RockHopper wrote:Hi motosega, I've added an export option for Akai MPC1000/2500 .pgm files and was hoping you'd be brave enough to test the latest code on GitHub!
fantastic! i'm so happy you decided to implement this, when its working you should definatly post to http://www.mpc-forums.com/

i've tried the pgm export (i have the mpc 500), it Almost works!!! i can load up the program file on my mpc but the samples don't load, when i go to pgm mode and look at what samples are loaded in the mpc it shows: ?samplename (the ? means not found)
this looks to me like the sample names are somehow wrong in the pgm file. if i load the samples manualy they work fine.

do you have some known working .pgm files? i could send you some if you need.

maybe it would be best to save the pgm and samples in a new folder, compact flash cards can get pretty messy with everthing in the root.

sample names should start from 01 ,when you have more than 10 it gets confusing.

annother thing i'd reccomend is that the pgm sets the sample volume to 100,
RockHopper wrote:
motosega wrote: it'd be great if it would audition the selected slice automaticaly.
Just to be clear, are you saying it would be more convenient if you could click on an audio slice, hear the sound, then move the slice straight away without releasing the mouse button, rather than having to click the "Audition" button then click the "Move" button?
sorry! i totaly didn't notice the audition button, it does exactly what i was asking for.
RockHopper wrote:
motosega wrote: maybe it would be handy to be able to unslice, (go back to the unsliced sample)
At the moment you can undo all operations including slicing the waveform. You can also slice the waveform, move the slices around, and then join them all back together with the keyboard shortcuts "Ctrl+A" followed by "J".
ok thats what i wanted.

shuriken is now working on my netbook, thanks!

keep up the good work!

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Re: Shuriken Beat Slicer

Post by RockHopper »

OK, I think I've fixed the bugs in the Akai pgm export code. Also, MIDI file export is now implemented so if you could test this with the MPC that would be great! Pads are automatically assigned to MIDI notes and MIDI notes to pads when exporting the pgm file.

The MIDI file type buttons don't actually do anything at the moment, I need to update the JUCE code to the latest version to get this functionality.
motosega wrote: maybe it would be best to save the pgm and samples in a new folder, compact flash cards can get pretty messy with everthing in the root.
You can create a new dir by adding, for example, "/FatBeat" to the end of the path in the "Output Dir" box and clicking "Create"

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