Linux music as a major player...

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diizy
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Re: Linux music as a major player...

Postby diizy » Thu Jul 10, 2014 8:54 am

glowrak guy wrote:In the context I am using, a work ethic, is the lifestyle
that chooses to work, and perform that work at the highest level possible,
rather than than accepting societies various handouts,
whether from friends, family, or taxpayers.


You answered a rhetorical question.

So, in that sense, a burglar or a pimp, could have a strong work ethic,
while lacking personal ethics.


So a hired assassin, child sex slave human trafficker or crack dealer can all have highly refined and strong work ethics.

So why is it a good thing again to have a "good work ethic"? I don't think it is, unless you're actually doing some good with your work. Someone who spends their time feeding the homeless or caring for the elderly while being unemployed and getting "society's handouts" gets infinity times more respect from me than someone working hard for the pr team of an oil company...

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Re: Linux music as a major player...

Postby raboof » Thu Jul 10, 2014 9:46 am

Guys, if there's any further off-topic post below I'm going through the thread and remove all of them.

glowrak guy
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Re: Linux music as a major player...

Postby glowrak guy » Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:54 pm

A recent 2014 'favorite daw' poll, on a sleazy major-player website,
based on 768 votes:

steinberg 180
logic 145
pro-tools 105
reaper 92
ableton 74
studio one 58
cakewalk 35
bitwig 10
Quite a few others received fewer than 10 votes.

This shows the scope of the situation, when contemplating linux audio becoming a major player.
Perhaps the question should be modified to linux becoming a blip on their radar?

On my computers, linux is the major player, windows is booted
rarely, usually to test a new windows sound app, whose installer fails to run,
and a few great apps, that have sluggish/buggy gui's.
when used in wine. I view linux as the daw, and I use reaper as a daw-within-the-daw.
Bitwig also works well, but I haven't purchased it (waiting for when
a no-brainer-bundle with a great midi controller occurs) I can upgrade
a Traktion license, but really, there just isn't time for more
than what I already can use.

(This poll's author, does not pretend perfection, or precision,
but perhaps it's worth some chin scratching)

glowrak guy
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Re: Linux music as a major player...

Postby glowrak guy » Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:03 am

http://www.digitalmusicdoctor.com/popularity/index.html

This page uses social media and search results, and has different daw choice results,
with the exception that linux products are not also shown as not a no-show.

glowrak guy
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Re: Linux music as a major player...

Postby glowrak guy » Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:32 am

Here are some reader-choice awards,

http://www.kvraudio.com/news/kvr-audio- ... ever-23986

Reaper and Ableton win for daws.
Guitarix2, to me, seems not too far behind the winning Amplitube, in actual usage results.
But a working cover band would enjoy the wide variety of modeled brand-name gear,
that of course, comes at a price.

Two winning synths, Zebra and Diva, to me are a bit less useful than Yoshimi,
(which is a sonic beast) but to a synth specialist, the three serve three distinct roles in a studio,
and could be seen as complimentary.

It should be noted, that the author of Zebra and Diva, also won for
best support, and favorite developer, so the linux community
should consider those as important roles to fill, friendly/frequent communication,
and leaving no question un-answered, if desiring the major player label.

glowrak guy
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Re: Linux music as a major player...

Postby glowrak guy » Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:12 am

Here's a 2011 poll where a forum not known for trysting gleefully with Pro-Tools
(as proved by Avids baby taking a paltry 1% showing from 550 votes) chooses the most
affordable option, to don the laurels.

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=324114

There has been some interest there, for Ardour3 running Harrison Mixbuss,
perhaps the most major-playerish of the linux options.

glowrak guy
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Re: Linux music as a major player...

Postby glowrak guy » Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:25 am

This poll, from a group used to dropping the big bills,

http://uadforum.com/general-discussion/ ... -poll.html

has another set a ratings that again, vary from the others,
this time the expensive daws win. As one might expect,
from the userbase at uad...

I wonder if all these polls were shuffled like a poker deck,
if there would be 5 aces :wink:

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Re: Linux music as a major player...

Postby glowrak guy » Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:08 am

http://www.futureproducers.com/forums/h ... ll-399290/

Unlike the others, this one has FL Studio and Reason in the lead. :lol: Might as well poll
about favorite soccer teams. :roll:

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Re: Linux music as a major player...

Postby kawliga » Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:42 am

Interesting article about the difficulties of funding Linux apps - although the article is about the GIMP it could just as well apply to Ardour.

http://prokoudine.info/blog/2011/02/why-gimp-and-inkscape-are-not-sponsored-by-linux-vendors/

I did not realise that Mark Shuttleworth had offered $30,000 funding to the GIMP in 2004. Sad but interesting to read about how it failed to work out.

glowrak guy
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Re: Linux music as a major player...

Postby glowrak guy » Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:20 am

AmigaOS and it's clone/offshoot, MorphOS both have a history
with successful bounties, and modern hardware/software implementations.
They now have drivers for modern 3D cards, new motherboards, web browsers,
a new soundcard, and more. All on tech dating from the mid 80's.

Money can't buy dedication. If Shuttlesworth and the other wealthy
linux mavens are lukewarm regarding funding, and the devs capable
of fulfilling 'bounties', have at times lacked interest, so be it. That doesn't prevent
us from learning from failed efforts in the past. I'm starting a new topic,
so we can suggest modest, but useful bounty projects, so devs can compare them
to their skills, and available hours.
Cheers

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Re: Linux music as a major player...

Postby glowrak guy » Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:28 am

OK, the bounty topic is now in the Linux Distributions and Other Software area.
Cheers

tramp
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Re: Linux music as a major player...

Postby tramp » Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:58 pm

Maybe that is a entry point for the Linux Musicians Forum, something like a "Donate to the Project of the month" |1/4 year | year . . . button
With a couple of payment systems available.[/quote]
raboof wrote:Guys, if there's any further off-topic post below I'm going through the thread and remove all of them.
tramp wrote:
diizy wrote:But in any case, if Paul doesn't have time to deal with the issue, then maybe someone should volunteer to handle the finances for Ardour - setting up and managing accounts, wallets, etc. and directing the funds to the developers. Maybe a foundation should be set up to handle these things.

Please, stop just talking, just make it :twisted:
On the road again.

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Re: Linux music as a major player...

Postby tramp » Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:19 pm

Rabof, thanks for non reply :evil:
Just a announcement On Th e An announcement page wouldn’t make it to get it go. :evil:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=12709
On the road again.

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Re: Linux music as a major player...

Postby raboof » Sun Jul 13, 2014 9:52 am

tramp wrote:Raboof, thanks for non reply :evil:


I'm sorry, but I didn't quite know how to respond to that yet. If we can be instrumental in funding Linux Musicians' software development, that'd be great. On the other hand, figuring out what that should look like is not trivial. At all. For one thing, I'm certainly not going to be the one deciding whether (say) LMMS or Ardour is more worthy of our donations, and quite frankly I'm afraid such discussions could turn toxic really fast if we're not careful about it.

Also, while I have to admit I did see ssj71 mention me in this case, if you really want to get in touch send a PM. I don't read everything.

tramp wrote:Just an announcement on the Announcement page wouldn’t make it to get it go. :evil: http://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=12709


That post has nothing to do with donating to other projects (except perhaps that it reminded me). We need a way to pay our own bills, and that's what that announcement is about.

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Re: Linux music as a major player...

Postby alex stone » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:57 am

The idea of a linux audio company seems ok as an initial idea.

Some thoughts.

1. To "feed" devs with enough resource any apps would need to be at least on par with commercial offerings. By forming a company, the perception may shift in potential users thinking from any notion of OpenSource, to something like "it has to work like Win and Mac because they offer a certain standard and workflow toolset that suits me, for the cash i part with". (Even if the reality of what constitutes a standard is aggressively marketing, more than excellent code)

2. Like it or not, the Linux Audio Company apps would be competing with those who have been doing this for quite some time, and have, by nature of their marketing and toolset, generated a minimum expectation level in users. We know by trial and error that an excellent, stable, fine-tuned Linux audio OS/Hardware box can outperform anything else. But that's not the perception of mainstream audio/midi users, who base their assumptions on "D/L and play for Win or Mac, because it just works". (Which for a large percentage it does)

3. The integration level in the commercial world between apps, hardware, controllers, surfaces, app admin software, etc, is mature. E.G, you can install Cubase, load Kontakt, access instruments directly in the interface, and a raft of other functions built to work together, tried and tested over many versions. (with regular, positive, mutual beneficial communication between companies. See a previous post for comments about mutual support in the EU across competitors. They know it's better to work together for their marketing image, than cut each other to bits.)
Now add Linux to this picture. A "newcomer" for mainstream users. Not only does Linux Audio have to prove itself to those with cash in their pockets, but it also has to get past current perceptions generated by users trying Linux Audio based distros previously, and possibly coming away with a less than ideal picture.
I'll add here that FalkTX needs a massive thank you from the community for simplfying the user experience in terms of setting up Jack, dealing with plugins, etc. Everytime i've mentioned KXStudio in fora outside of the community, there's "someone" who's tried it, and had a good experience. (It's the closest i think we've ever been to "plug 'n play, which seems to be the overwhelming user expectation)
And i would venture here that of all the fine devs in the community, he's probably got the closest to reducing negative experiences from mainstream users who find setting up LA, rightly or wrongly, "too hard". I'll add Gmaq to that as well, although i only used AV for a limited time.
If there is a Linux Audio Company, then i'd venture they should be at the forefront of the user experience team, dedicated to getting as close as possible to plug 'n play. (Their quality control standards and expectations of themselves are high.)

4. Then there's the marketing and interaction with commercial companies who currently make software, and software instruments for Win and Mac. How do you convince them to release Linux versions, especially if no equivalent exists in the LA world? What sort of trust and longevity will they get for the time and money they put into native linux development? How willing will Linux devs be to integrate with commercial interests, like NI, and devote time and effort to make that happen at a professional use standard?
And how much harder will they have to work if there are lots of corner cases and exceptions to consider, possibly more so than commercial OSs? (VST, AU, LV2?)

5. If an LA company is to be considered as a potential money spinner for devs, and given the wide range of options for Linux Users in terms of distro choices, would the company be better served in "removing" some of that choice, and building and maintaining a dedicated distro, in which ALL the community pour their effort, with the potential for a mutual community reward. (And if this horrifies some of you, then do you want a financially sound company based on a common code set that devs can work with, or stick with the myriad of choices, and dissipate the energies of not only devs, but other important contributors, like manual writers, website builders, those who will enthusiastically market the company, those who test?) And included in this is commercial app companies. If they know they can build for the "Linux Audio Company Distro", and expect a constant and stable codebase, then will that tempt them to collaborate, with the potential increase of reward for the LA community?
(And there's already an example of success in this vein, with Reaper. Justin has maintained and improved the Wine/Linux functionality, and Reaper works as well as it ever did, in Wine.)
And if "LADist" is the base OS, which codebase is it based on? Arch? Debian? Or a completely new base, which is built from scratch by an LA OS team, and fine tuned for maximum stability and capability, with long term releases, and not the "release early and often" mantra, which may make external contributors nervous, instead of inspiring them to join in? (At least for the distro core)

6. My use case in Linux seems destined to stay on the fringes for the forseeable future. Yet that use case is more mainstream in the commercial world. I use this example not to push my particular agenda (i've given up after 10 yrs ), but make a point.
Who decides which projects are "worthy", and what the design and commercial intent of The Linux Audio Company takes? Is it just electronica/sampling/synth based, or does the company go the whole nine metres, and build for all, in the same marketplace and user demographic as mainstream commercial offerings? Who sets quality control standards, and can build relationships with devs to collaborate in a constructive, mutally beneficial team, where some personal design choices may be put aside for the greater good, and in the pursuit of consistency across the distro? Will devs be willing to modify, or some cases even give up their ideas (at least in the LACompany structure) to have their app in the pot? (with the potential for financial gain.)

I wonder if it's worth considering a dual perspective, with opensource versions, AND a commercial LACompany version. Devs can explore their design and function choices freely in opensource, and earn some bread and butter writing a commercial native linux version for LACompany. Keep the two separate, and treat the LACompany as an entirely commercial concern, not some sort of hybrid mutant.

Just some thoughts off the top of the head.

Alex.


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