Bitwig 1.0 is out!

[sysrqer]

Yeah that post was mine. I don't know if it worked in previous versions, this is the first one I've tried.

[danboid]

sysrqer:

I know you've not had as long playing with BWS as Tracktion but what are your initial thoughts on the two?

Could you justify spending so much money on BWS? What features does BWS have that are missing in Tracktion (that you would use) or vice versa, apart from FLAC import, which you've mentioned?

[sysrqer]

sysrqer:

I know you've not had as long playing with BWS as Tracktion but what are your initial thoughts on the two?

Could you justify spending so much money on BWS? What features does BWS have that are missing in Tracktion (that you would use) or vice versa, apart from FLAC import, which you've mentioned?

danboid, I've been thinking all day about how to answer this, it's a hard one. I'm very impressed with Bitwig, I don't think it quite lives up to all I had hoped it would be, there are a couple of things missing at the moment but I'm sure as time goes on it is going to get better and better.

Bitwig has a real strength in the fx and instruments that come with it. I was a bit sceptical about the lack of lv2 support and the claims that it isn't really needed with what you can do with the included features. I was wrong, the synths are amazing and the sampler is very good. It has some really good fx and the feature of being able to add fx in to the existing fx (like patching a reverb or filter in to the feedback path of a delay rather than just on the output of the delay) is incredible. Similar things could be possible with some imagination in Tracktion with the racks but Bitwig is on another level really.

I feel that the included stuff is an area that is lacking in Tracktion, I know it's not a popular opinion after reading some of the threads on the kvr forum but I think Tracktion really needs a basic synth, perhaps something modular along the lines of the fx racks where you can build synths as powerful as you want but at its heart something basic. With the lack of VST synths available in linux and the fact that Tracktion is a bit picky about which will work (obxd), this is something that really draws me to Bitwig, and something that puts me off using Tracktion - sure there are enough to get things done but a bit more choice would be good.

Then there is a the non linearity that Bitwig offers. I haven't really explored it much in this program yet but from being a long time Ableton user I know how great it is in aiding creativity and getting a track together, it's actually something I've struggled with since using linux, pretty much everything is based on linear timelines (with the exception of one or two).

While playing with Bitwig I had the recurring idea that it is actually very similar to Tracktion in lots of ways, which in some ways makes a comparison even harder. They do share a lot of features although implemented in different ways. There are also a lot of things in Tracktion that are missing in Bitwig, like the incredible comping feature it has and the amazing flexibility of routing (I just noticed today that return tracks don't have sends in Bitwig so you can't send one to another or send one back in to itself). They both have the good idea and implementation of trying to unify the whole program with a lack of windows to open, Tracktion actually beating Bitwig at this.

One thing I think lets both programs down is the reverbs they use, they're both a bit lame.

Bitwig really does feel much more polished though, which could be expected with the amount of work that's gone in to it and the fact that they have an experienced Ableton dev at the helm. In a lot of ways it feels like what Tracktion could be in a few years. I don't know if I could justify spending the money on Bitwig, it is a lot of money to me especially not living in a first world European or North American country. It does offer some incredible features which make music creation a joy and fun to do, there is something playful about it which is very important I think. That said, you could use Tracktion and some free/cheap vst synths and fx and have a lot of similar features.

I'm finding myself viewing Bitwig exactly as I thought I would...I love it and want it. For me it is perfect (or nearly, a lot more perfect than anything else I have used in linux, put it that way), it is quite intuitive when you get used to a couple of things, something I haven't found with Tracktion. I just don't think I can afford it.

[danboid]

Thanks for your lengthy reply sysrqer! You were the perfect person to write that due to your Ableton-using background and being familiar with Tracktion too.

Someone did a review of Tracktion recently where they got the devs to reveal upcoming features and some bundled 'microsynths' were mentioned so I think one of your wishes is to be fulfilled soon although I expect it won't out-do Bitwig's integrated synths.

I will be trying Bitwig myself soon but mainly out of curioisity. I've never paid multiple hundreds of pounds for one program and I don't think I could justify it to myself unless I was making money from music and I don't like to use cracked software for creating projects I sink tens or hundreds of hours into. I don't use any pirate software and haven't done so for the longest time - I've had no need.

The most surprising thing you wrote was saying you're not from Europe as I thought you were in the UK like me - I'm sure that's where your bandcamp page said you were based and I thought I'd saw you post something to that effect on here too?

[sysrqer]

Now you mention it I do recall hearing something about the micro synths, it certainly sounds promising. I hope they go down the modular route with it as it would really expand one the fantastic base of the rack feature that Tracktion has. The name implies it might be, let's wait and see.

Interesting that you mention pirated software, I have to admit that I did use some when I was using windows but since moving to linux I feel the same as you about it. More than anything else I really appreciate the effort of people/companies/devs supporting this platform and would like to see them continue doing so, pirated software isn't going to help anything in this respect.

I am from the UK but I live in Costa Rica now and earn Colones rather than pounds. The cost of Bitwig is about a full month's wages for me and when I think about all the miserable hours that go in to that it makes the cost of the program seem less worth it

[sysrqer]

I'm really starting to see some of the limitations of this program now. I noticed that you can't route individual cells of the drum machine to dedicated audio channels. This isn't THAT important because each cell does have its own chain of fx but it would be very nice if you could send the output somewhere else. Which brings me to the other thing I've noticed, if you put a dynamics plugin on a track then you are unable to select individual drum machine cells as the sidechain input. This means that if you make your drums with the drum machine you cannot use the kick as a sidechain trigger for your basslines. I think I see a workaround because the dynamics plugin has a an FX slot so I guess you could use a filter or EQ to home in on the kick but it is less than ideal. That and the fact that you can't use sends on return channels have left me pretty disappointed, considering some of the really nice but small and detailed features (like the histograms on the midi clips) it is incredible that they haven't addressed one of the most popular aspects of modern electronic music properly, sidechaining. It is possible to do with the dynamics plugins but they really dropped the ball in not letting you route a kick you have created with a drum machine to another track.