B.Schaffl - New pattern-controlled MIDI amp & stretch LV2 plugin

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milk
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Re: B.Schaffl - New pattern-controlled MIDI amp & stretch LV2 plugin

Post by milk »

they/them ta / wiki.thingsandstuff.org/Audio and related pages - a collection of mostly Linux and free links / Linux Digital Audio and Music Workstation Comparison Matrix - collaborative Google Sheet (slightly broken, no time/cpu power to fix here)

sjaehn
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Re: B.Schaffl - New pattern-controlled MIDI amp & stretch LV2 plugin

Post by sjaehn »

Thanks @milk

Fractal patterns would indeed be an interesting option. And it would fit to the algorithm-based approach of the plugin. Discussed alternatives including A. I. and human input discussed here and there all have their disadvantages.

Interestingly, the authors of the paper left some space for a use of randomness in the short time scale. As "at higher frequencies the spectrum whitens..." (and might even become anticorrelated). And "interval fluctuations may also be affected by motor delays discussed above that lead to vanishing LRCs "

Indeed, it would be nice to have such a more advanced humanization option here. Maybe B.Schaffl will come up with a tab with these options in the next future.

tripomatic
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Re: B.Schaffl - New pattern-controlled MIDI amp & stretch LV2 plugin

Post by tripomatic »

looks very interesting. To bad it's only lv2, vst would be handy for me :-).

And what is compressing a midi signal? It that like when velocity of incoming note is 10, you get an output of 127 in most extreme form?

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Re: B.Schaffl - New pattern-controlled MIDI amp & stretch LV2 plugin

Post by sjaehn »

tripomatic wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:43 pm
And what is compressing a midi signal? It that like when velocity of incoming note is 10, you get an output of 127 in most extreme form?
Temporal stretching and compressing. Like conversion of a quarter note to a half or an eigth note. Depending on the stretch or compression of the respective step.

In addition, you can manipulate its velocity using the amp sliders for each step.

You can hear both effects (amp on one hand and temporal stretch/compression on the other) in the preview video linked above.

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milk
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Re: B.Schaffl - New pattern-controlled MIDI amp & stretch LV2 plugin

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they/them ta / wiki.thingsandstuff.org/Audio and related pages - a collection of mostly Linux and free links / Linux Digital Audio and Music Workstation Comparison Matrix - collaborative Google Sheet (slightly broken, no time/cpu power to fix here)

merlyn
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Re: B.Schaffl - New pattern-controlled MIDI amp & stretch LV2 plugin

Post by merlyn »

sjaehn wrote:Temporal stretching and compressing. Like conversion of a quarter note to a half or an eigth note. Depending on the stretch or compression of the respective step.
It seems that using the word 'compression' has led to confusion at least in this case, and I think because 'compression' is in such widespread use it will continue to do so.

The words from the music vocabulary are 'augmentation' for stretching and 'diminution' for compressing. They're a bit of a mouthful, so an alternative would be 'temporal stretching and shrinking'. :)

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Re: B.Schaffl - New pattern-controlled MIDI amp & stretch LV2 plugin

Post by sjaehn »

merlyn wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:55 pm
The words from the music vocabulary are 'augmentation' for stretching and 'diminution' for compressing.
I fully agree if we talk about notes. However, the plugin doesn't stretch/augment or compress/diminish only notes. It stretches/compresses steps. And as result *any* MIDI signal. Not only notes. Also CC, aftertouch, ...

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Re: B.Schaffl - New pattern-controlled MIDI amp & stretch LV2 plugin

Post by merlyn »

I was suggesting 'shrink' may lead to less confusion than 'compress'.

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Re: B.Schaffl - New pattern-controlled MIDI amp & stretch LV2 plugin

Post by tripomatic »

milk wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:30 pm
https://github.com/falkTX/Carla https://github.com/x42/lv2vst and https://github.com/kushview/element can run an LV2 in a VST host
I knew carla & lx2vst existed. Tried compiling lv2vst while back but failed.
Carla vst also failed to load in my daw, but had no time to look what cause if of failure of loading & compiling.
Anyway i always prefer native, extra layers can cause extra problems.

will have look into it again.

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Re: B.Schaffl - New pattern-controlled MIDI amp & stretch LV2 plugin

Post by sjaehn »

milk wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:29 pm
oops, i posted the wrong link initially; https://journals.plos.org/plosone/artic ... ne.0127902
After a while of thinking about it ... I see the limits.

One hand, we have the signal level aspect (amp, velocity). And the temporal aspect on the other. The authors of the paper find (fractal) patterns mainly in the long range. Simplified, if something should sound more human, it sound have some deviation in level and timing over a longer period that follow a fractal pattern.

The problem: concerto.
Plugins are usually connected to a single instrument. If the effect of a plugin results in a significant shift of level or timing over a longer period for a single instrument, this instrument will run out of synchronization with the others.They are not playing together anymore. You can let the instruments re-synchronize after a defined period (done in B.Schaffl at the start of each sequence), but this will destroy the concept of humanization with fractal patterns over a longer period.

On the other hand, MIDI 1.x has 16 channels. So you can route up to 16 instruments through the same plugin. But this approach is a bit trickier in the most of the DAWs. And the instruments may play too synchronous now. Unless some "inter channel humanization" is added.

Challenging. The best way would be having a DAW that can do it all.

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Re: B.Schaffl - New pattern-controlled MIDI amp & stretch LV2 plugin

Post by tavasti »

sjaehn wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 10:21 am
The problem: concerto.
Plugins are usually connected to a single instrument. If the effect of a plugin results in a significant shift of level or timing over a longer period for a single instrument, this instrument will run out of synchronization with the others.They are not playing together anymore. You can let the instruments re-synchronize after a defined period (done in B.Schaffl at the start of each sequence), but this will destroy the concept of humanization with fractal patterns over a longer period.

On the other hand, MIDI 1.x has 16 channels. So you can route up to 16 instruments through the same plugin. But this approach is a bit trickier in the most of the DAWs. And the instruments may play too synchronous now. Unless some "inter channel humanization" is added.

Challenging. The best way would be having a DAW that can do it all.
You could have plugins communicating with each other, for example with shared memory. First plugin comes timing master, and others follow that in big picture, but have minor deviations on their own timing.
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