Anyone Leaving Spotify After Joe Rogan Incident?

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asbak
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Re: Anyone Leaving Spotify After Joe Rogan Incident?

Post by asbak »

tavasti wrote: Mon Feb 14, 2022 10:07 pm Now what you say that because there is some amount of cheating, errors and mistakes, all the science is wrong, and instead of it you believe someone who states something without any studies? Because professional pilots sometimes make mistakes and cause accidents you think it is better to take someone who isn't professional?
This furore about Rogan & Spotify is about an unqualified layman (Neil Young) who declared in the name of science that an interviewer should be removed from a media platform because he interviewed two highly qualified medical scientists and professionals.

Neil Young, a person with zero scientific credentials whatsoever, declared that scientists on a podcast are spreading scientific misinformation and as such the person who facilitated the interviews with these scientists must be shut down and cancelled as punishment.

Now I may not know everything, but from my point of view this does seem like a somewhat insane and upside down world kind of situation.

I don't believe that a nobody such as Neil Young ought to be making policy on what does or does not constitute science, what may or may not be allowed to be said in public or on media platforms.

If every aspiring Neil Young out there started behaving in this way and somehow obtained a taste of power to implement and ordain their particular brands of "science" (remember, Neil Young is not a scientist but a boomer hippy with a dozen or so hangers-on) then nothing good will come from this.
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Re: Anyone Leaving Spotify After Joe Rogan Incident?

Post by merlyn »

asbak wrote: Wed Feb 16, 2022 6:50 am The road to hell is paved with good intentions, as the saying goes.
Cliche.
Who has the monopoly on what is harmful vs not harmful, or truth vs falsehoods, or accuracy vs faults, right vs wrong.
Maybe you think you landed something with this rhetorical question, but again it's an emotional argument. Think about this rhetorical question for more than five seconds and we can come up with some answers. In a democracy it's the people who decide what's harmful and not harmful through their elected representatives.
The world isn't a giant safe space and when one mob take it upon themselves to make up the rules and place themselves in charge it's only going to lead to one outcome, namely to employ this as a weapon against others who have different views.
Could you please just say what you mean without appeals to emotion? Using images of mobs and weapons doesn't advance your argument. Trying to interpret this doggerel I can only conclude you are not a fan of democracy.
People out there in the wild aren't as kind or sane as a reasonable person who is used to a protected existence may believe they are. Many people are predators and once they get power (and these types usually gravitate toward politics and similar fields) they will abuse it. Once they get to decide what may or may not be allowed, they will abuse that power.

Therefore imo a society containing at least some chaos, a few hurt feelings & offending the thin-skinned is a small price to pay compared to the police state alternative. Why? Because at least one still has some kind of a choice & freedom in a more chaotic society.
Here we have the false dichotomy. You're proposing a binary choice between chaos and a police state. This is obviously not true.
In the Neil Young utopia Big Brother does the deciding. This would be a paradise on earth for Statists and Stockholm syndromed people, as for myself I'd rather not live that dream.
You're equating any sort of state with Big Brother. If there is no state, how does democracy work?
A world where you still have a choice on what you are allowed to see, read and hear on Spotify or elsewhere is preferable to a world where Big Brother makes these decisions for you.
You've jumped a few steps here, speaking logically. Again you're sneaking in an argument to get rid of the state, equating it with Big Brother.
That's my take on it. Many will disagree but as far as I'm concerned their views and ideologies are not "more equal" (reference to Orwell's Animal Farm) than mine. Once such groups appoint themselves in charge and declare themselves more equal (for the children, for humanity, for decency! they will claim), that they are "right", that they own the monopoly on the truth and all these things, then it becomes a very slippery slope.
Slippery slope to what? A slippery slope is a logical fallacy, unless you're claiming to have a crystal ball, or evidence that action A leads to outcome B.

Think about it. If there was no state what would be in its place? Good old boys in army fatigues driving around in SUVs, shooting their guns in the air, and shouting about freedom? The corporations want rid of the state so they can do what they want and in a shocking flip I'm going to propose you are an unwitting stooge of corporate interests.

You are free to be illogical, irrational and emotional but if that's the case your energies would be better directed towards fiction, which is what your argument is.
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Re: Anyone Leaving Spotify After Joe Rogan Incident?

Post by asbak »

Cliché to you, but that doesn't make it any less true.
In a democracy it's the people who decide what's harmful and not harmful through their elected representatives.
That's classic Sarkozy (and he's not the only one by far) logic. "Voters voted for me, therefore they approve of my actions after they voted for me". :mrgreen:

Not many people vote, attendance tends to be poor.

Do I really believe that "the people" decide anything? No.
If that's your belief, that's fine too. You're entitled to your opinion.
You're proposing a binary choice between chaos and a police state.
Come on, surely it cannot be that difficult to comprehend what was written.

I'm proposing a choice between the world from not long ago that was still relatively sane and normal and free, where Government and its allies from certain quarters were not trying to control and micro-manage every facet of your life vs a future police state controlled by the New Gestapo.
You are free to be illogical, irrational and emotional but if that's the case your energies would be better directed towards fiction, which is what your argument is.
Take a more critical look at yourself fella. I'm not telling you your business, or Neil Young his business. Believe whatever you like.
Just don't make your issues my issues.

That's the gist of it.

My view is that people who don't want to be on Spotify or who want to accuse Medical Specialists and Scientists of "spreading Covid disinformation" are totally free to state their beliefs and withdraw their custom from media platforms or whatever the applicable platform or forum was.

What is not acceptable is when these people demand that everybody else must be made subject to their beliefs, ideologies and be subjected to their cancel culture. If they don't like something or somewhere they are free to leave and go away.

Things would be better if the Neil Youngs of this world stopped ruining the environment and the world for the rest of us with their cancel culture. That's not an unreasonable ask at all and I am perplexed why such an obvious and reasonable point of view has you so hot and bothered?
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Re: Anyone Leaving Spotify After Joe Rogan Incident?

Post by sysrqer »

asbak wrote: Wed Feb 16, 2022 5:54 pm I'm proposing a choice between the world from not long ago that was still relatively sane and normal and free, where Government and its allies from certain quarters were not trying to control and micro-manage every facet of your life vs a future police state controlled by the New Gestapo.
When and where are you talking about?
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Re: Anyone Leaving Spotify After Joe Rogan Incident?

Post by GMaq »

Since we're hopelessly off the original topic now...

I'm not going to say a word about Covid-19... Joe Rogan by his own admission will tell you as he did in his press release about this Neil Young debacle that he can be a 'lunkhead' sometimes... that's a pretty refreshing slice of self-awareness for a celebrity... doesn't make him right or wrong, just an observation..

Neil Young on the other hand.. before I get started, I love the man's music and his ability to get lost in it and connect to whatever that Cosmic power is that moves people in music but that Neil Young hasn't been around since the early 90's

The man is quite obviously a non-conformist and a contrarian at heart, his life is littered with instances of people coming to depend on him and enjoy what he's doing only to have him jerk the wheel and head for the ditch on the other side of the road... Whether it's veering from 'Harvest' to 'Tonight's the Night' to 'Trans' or being all about Electric cars until other people started having them too or jumping ship on his wife for Daryl Hannah when she was sick or his complete and utterly wrong (proven many times over by science) assertions of the 'quality' of Digital music or his being an arch-conservative when the Democrats are in power and and arch-Liberal when the Republicans are in power. Despite any musical talent the man has proven over and over and over again that he is unreliable as f**k! When David Crosby calls you the most selfish person he's ever known you've got a big problem...

For him to be the spokesperson or spearhead for any cause is as laughable and incongrous as any politician of the elite ruling class (regardless of affiliation) being relied upon to act in anyone's interest but their own. The only thing you can be sure of is if Young was successful at 'cancelling' Spotify his next move would be to jerk the wheel in the completely opposite direction and leave all his supporters twisting in the wind..
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