Song vs. Instrumental

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jonetsu
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Re: Song vs. Instrumental

Postby jonetsu » Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:22 pm

42low wrote:I guess (almost know for sure) that the instrumental producers try to communicate particular emotions too and is also is bounded in it's emotional background.


Music is largely emotions. What I wrote a few messages back is how I (and many others) are going about with instrumental music: that it is also telling a story. The use of minor chords, their harmonies, will not be apt to bring joy, the opposite of the use of major chords. And then all the modulations in between. And then scales in other modes, other cultures. The melodies, the rhythm, the power or the lay back, all contributes to a mini journey of some sort, from the beginning to the end of the piece. Music by itself, without words, has a lot of influence on the mind and spirit. And a lot of that is mapped by techniques, for the better and for the worse. For the worse is when composers are going by the book. They are experts are theory and can produce rich set of chords instantly in any mood but... they sound so sterile in doing so. They know exactly how to string chords and melodies together to produce effects and emotions, and even though it sounds very nice, there's a feeling of "mathematics" behind their productions.

jonetsu
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Re: Song vs. Instrumental

Postby jonetsu » Tue May 01, 2018 12:08 am

Yes, but a love song remains a love song, because somewhere in the words there'll be "love" along with a suggestion that it's not a broken love or something like that, and is indeed a love song.

And then there's the factor on language. So far we all assume everyone understands English. So in such a case we can have words that are not understood although the human voice carries emotions. In which case it becomes an instrumental in a way. For instance this great performance by Tan WeiWei:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYOzzmrYqkM

It's full of emotions but you will not be able to tell what it is about. The human voice, when one does not understand the words becomes more of an instrument.

And it can also by ambiguous. For instance here, are they angry about something ? Hanggai:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvW8JEuIo58

And even more, when song becomes story-telling of emotions pertaining to environmental states, then the meaning is well hidden in the language, and the music - and the vocals - remains as instruments. Värttinä:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KSltodtEMU

Songs with words, but then, songs with words we understand. If not, it becomes an instrumental, a boosted instrumental becomes there's no instrument that can replace the human voice. 8)

aimeusdietger
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Re: Song vs. Instrumental

Postby aimeusdietger » Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:52 pm

GraysonPeddie wrote:Is it possible that a song that does not have lyric/vocal should not be a song, but instrumental? If a lead instrument that performs a melody, can it be a song?

I can picture this:

Listener: Hey, what song is this?
Musician: It's not a song since there isn't a vocal. It's classified as instrumental.
Listener: Well... So? So what?
Musician: To be classified as a song, I have to add lyrics to a song and sing into it, so since I didn't, it's not a song. It's instrumental

Okay, am I not making any sense at all?

Cranky said that my songs are not instrumental. Noticed that I could have used "it" or "my music" but... I don't know.

https://www.recordingrevolution.com/3-m ... /#comments

So here's a song from Checkfield called "Carousel."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLThFQRGeMI

And let me ask you guys again: Does Checkfield compose "it" as "instrumental" or a "song?" Checkfield's song has a very beautiful structure and the melody is very memorable that I don't see the song as having lyrics at all. And this is the reason why I use "it" for determining whether a piece of a music is a song or an instrumental.


If it has melody then its a song!! it does not matter if has lyrics or not... why call it instrumental,, just instrumental when you easily find yourself humming to it in the shower or in the kitchen??

Dominique
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Re: Song vs. Instrumental

Postby Dominique » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:02 pm

For me a piece of music without lyrics is an instrumental song, or in short an instrumental. After, it can be cultural differences. As example, how do you will call this? UUTAi Olena - Siberian shaman lady
A song? an instrumental? a singed instrumental? a lyricless song?

I will call this a song because into the ancient culture of that lady, they call it a song even if it is no lyrics, and because I think it is possible to make that difference in English by calling it a song. But in French we will use morceau for such a piece of music without real lyrics, which is like piece, a generic term.

jonetsu
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Re: Song vs. Instrumental

Postby jonetsu » Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:46 pm

Regarding Olena, it could be that it is more of a piece than song, depending if it's always played exactly the same. Could it be that a song has more of a committed structure while a piece has some leeways in it for real time 'detours' ?

Dominique
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Re: Song vs. Instrumental

Postby Dominique » Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:06 am

In French, a morceau, piece in English, is a generic term that fit every piece of music in existence. I think it is the same in English for piece.

For big artwork made of several pieces like an opera, we will use oeuvre (artwork) for the whole stuff and mouvement or morceau for the individual pieces.

jonetsu
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Re: Song vs. Instrumental

Postby jonetsu » Wed Feb 27, 2019 3:09 pm

Une "piece" en anglais ou bien un "morceau" en français reflètent tous les deux une partie de quelque chose. Un truc extrait d'un "quelque chose" de vague, jamais mentionné. En tant que tel à mon avis un morceau peut se targer d'être modifiable de temps à autre alors qu'une chanson (song) se doit d'adhérer à une structure bien établie qui se conforme à une expectation. On veut fredonner le refrain à un tel moment, après une suite d'événements.

A 'piece' in English or a 'morceau' in French are both reflecting a part of something. A piece extracted from something vague, never mentioned. as such I find that a piece can boast being altered fromt ime to time whereas a song has to stick to a precise, expected, structure. We want to hum along a chorus at a precise moment preceded by a known line of musical events (eg. verses, bridge, verse, climax for the chorus, chorus for the hum along)


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