How to reach public?

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magicalex
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Re: How to reach public?

Postby magicalex » Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:22 pm

If you ever find out, let me know!
My name is Sandy and I sing songs: SandySingsSongs.com

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magicalex
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Re: How to reach public?

Postby magicalex » Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:36 pm

It just means I've been scratching my head recently about how to get my music/videos to a wider audience. And I look forward to hearing some good advice on how to accomplish it. I hope I didn't misunderstand your question.
My name is Sandy and I sing songs: SandySingsSongs.com

ufug
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Re: How to reach public?

Postby ufug » Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:33 pm

I really like Bandcamp for reaching people both as a musician and as a fan. Free account options, any kind of license you want, downloads available in almost any format you can imagine (ogg!), set your own price or pay-what-you-want, and a decent streaming app.

It's a very unique place for online music. You can leverage the social aspect to connect with people as much or as little as you want, and steam free a few times before buying. It's perfect if you like finding new, unexpected gems.

Selling digital albums direct is pretty nice too. My old band is on all the big streaming services--it generates pennies and is lost in the noise. I make my silly homemade pop albums and post them on Bandcamp and this year made enough cash to buy some gear and donate to a couple projects I love because they take such a small cut. Not a lot, but it's a nice bonus. ;)

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davephillips
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Re: How to reach public?

Postby davephillips » Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:55 am

Live shows ? (gasp!)

Real management is another option.

rghvdberg
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Re: How to reach public?

Postby rghvdberg » Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:58 am

Dutchies unite! boep.nl, check it out.
Warning : strange language

rghvdberg
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Re: How to reach public?

Postby rghvdberg » Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:55 am

They hold a percentage of the sales.
So far I've made 7 euro cents!

rghvdberg
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Re: How to reach public?

Postby rghvdberg » Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:53 pm

You have to be careful with posting covers on Spotify and such.
I have a magazine from Buma Stemra about it and report back about it when Ive read it.
By chance a DJ made a hard style remix of the song Bloemkool by one of my bands.
Original here : https://open.spotify.com/album/66EMKIPzJaEsTPSnDIc4Q0

Yup, epic songs ;-)

Drumfix
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Re: How to reach public?

Postby Drumfix » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:10 pm

Put a funny video with some cats on YouTube and use your songs as background music. :mrgreen:

ssj71
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Re: How to reach public?

Postby ssj71 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:32 pm

IMHO:

The music industry has dramatically changed and its not going to go back. There no longer is any "public" in the sense that if your song is on the radio the whole city is going to hear it (or they'll have to change the dial to one of the 3 other stations in town). There is no captive audience: everything is on-demand, through many different channels. I think your best chance is basically to use good branding, get your music into as many different places as possible (youtube, spotify, band website, music curator podcasts and playlists, free music archive, facebook, where-ever you can). You might try to find local filmmakers to see if you can get into their film scores. I think gigging is also a huge part of growing a following because thats where music fans tend to go. You are selling yourself, your image, your brand (even if you aren't charging money for them). I think its a lot of work without much monetary payout (which I don't think you are going for).
_ssj71

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Michael Willis
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Re: How to reach public?

Postby Michael Willis » Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:38 pm

As a content creator, how does the experience of using Jamendo compare to Bandcamp? To me they seem like they would be quite different, but I've only ever used either one to find and listen to music, rather than as a musician wanting to share my work.

I tried signing up for SoundCloud at one point, but I think there was a glitch in the sign up process; it gave me an error message, and then every subsequent attempt I've made with my email address fails to work, only giving me an error in the browser console. With the recent announcement about SoundCloud cutting staff, I don't really feel like trying to get my bug resolved.

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Re: How to reach public?

Postby ufug » Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:49 pm

Drumfix wrote:Put a funny video with some cats on YouTube and use your songs as background music. :mrgreen:


This is one of those things that is funny because it's true! :lol: Maybe not a cat video, but the idea does make sense as a way to get your music out there: attach it to a clip that will be widely shared on social media.

You are still playing the odds, but the odds are better than trying to get through to people through commercial radio/TV.

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GMaq
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Re: How to reach public?

Postby GMaq » Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:13 pm

davephillips wrote:Live shows ? (gasp!)

Real management is another option.


Hi Dave,

Live shows are of course as always a great way for people to hear you play your music, what has changed (especially with people under 40) is that people aren't terribly interested in hard-copies of music (ie CD's). We play plenty of shows, good vibes, good response, encores, the whole shot. People come up on breaks or after and are very receptive, but when you try to hand them a CD (even for free) they look at it like "what on earth am I supposed to do with this?!"

Even a small cheap USB key with MP3's is too difficult and clumsy to get on their smartphone (especially iPhones), about 2% of the population would even know where to begin :roll: . For live bands the best you can hope is to direct the audience to your Facebook page and and have them give you some likes, most promoters and entertainment agents today (if they'll give you 4 seconds at all) simply look at your Facebook page and likes, if they deem you have a reasonable amount of likes, you're hired, most don't even get as far as viewing your Soundcloud/Youtube/Bandcamp/Spotify at all. My son recently attended a seminar on submitting your band to large summer music Festivals etc. the consensus (from the booking agents) was that your first 2 emails would get ignored, after that if you were annoyingly persistent enough you may get noticed, but then if the Facebook page wasn't impressive enough... too bad.

In Canada large cities like Toronto basically have bands lined up begging to get into a 5 band showcase in the shittiest dives on a Monday night to play for 1/2 an hour for no money.

Getting your music out there isn't only discouraging in cyberspace unfortunately.

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Re: How to reach public?

Postby singforme » Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:38 am

I think it's also important to find your niche. The smaller the better. It's probably much easier to be the best and most famous country band in Belgium than to be one of 5000 country bands in Nashville. Or maybe be the number one christian rock band in Cuba or the most famous metal band in the Vatican or the best Polka act in New York City. In Austria one of the most successful live acts is a Russian Ska Band called Russkaja. There are many better bands in this country but Russkaja are all over the place. If you're music isn't very nichy then maybe you can choose yourself a small circle that you feel you belong to. Like if you're in a nationwide company or affiliated to some NGO you can be the number one Pop Duo in that field and get invited to play at all of their parties. It's probably much easier to find 1000 fans in a niche of 10000 interested people than to find 100 fans in a market of Millions.

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davephillips
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Re: How to reach public?

Postby davephillips » Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:55 pm

GMaq wrote:
davephillips wrote:Live shows ? (gasp!)

Real management is another option.


Live shows are of course as always a great way for people to hear you play your music, what has changed (especially with people under 40) is that people aren't terribly interested in hard-copies of music (ie CD's). We play plenty of shows, good vibes, good response, encores, the whole shot. People come up on breaks or after and are very receptive, but when you try to hand them a CD (even for free) they look at it like "what on earth am I supposed to do with this?!"


Interesting analysis. You're right, the CD is deader than dead, along with possibly the entire model of saleable music recorded to portable dedicated media. My only student who brings in a CD is a bassist working from a book/disc combination. Otherwise it's all on the mobile, via the net. There's very little music I can't get off the Internet, for free via YouTube or for $$$ via the paid services, and its ubiquity more or less guarantees that I'll be able to download what I want pretty much any time.

If they can't make money selling media or from site donations then it looks to me like a band's best bet for money-making is to play live as much as possible. Gigs at least pay in honor of a contract. FB, SC, BandCamp, etc. *might* make you some money but your listeners have no contract to pay you at all. Btw, I don't know what the rates are up there, but even in a town like mine I can gig for $100 per night (per player) at most of the remaining venues. And it seems that people are going out more here, a number of local venues have been promoting live acts. Obviously these venues favor duos or trios, but I'm still hearing of gigs that pay for larger groups. Me, I'd go out with a trio to maximize the fun factor and the payoff.

Incidentally, when I gig I have two meters running all the time. One is the Cash-o-meter, the other is Fun-o-meter. One or the other has to be pegged to the max, else I am an unhappy camper. Both pegged is the ideal gig, of course.

For live bands the best you can hope is to direct the audience to your Facebook page and and have them give you some likes, most promoters and entertainment agents today (if they'll give you 4 seconds at all) simply look at your Facebook page and likes, if they deem you have a reasonable amount of likes, you're hired, most don't even get as far as viewing your Soundcloud/Youtube/Bandcamp/Spotify at all.


Earlier this year one of my students had the highly enjoyable experience of hanging out with Rob Mounsey and Steve Khan for a day in NYC. The student is heading to Belmont University next year to pursue a degree program in songwriting and the music business (Belmont is in Nashville), and he was able to wrangle a mentoring session with Rob (he's a friend of my student's father), who asked his friend Steve to drop by. (Btw, it's understandable if you don't know these guys. FYI, Rob is a Grammy-award winning keyboardist best known for his work with Madonna, Paul Simon, and Steely Dan. Steve Khan has a long and distinguished career that includes session work with Steely Dan - IIRC he's the lead player on "Peg" - and a stint as Billy Joel's guitarist. So, hard-core industry pros.) My student learned a lot that day, especially how very difficult it can be to get in and stay in the music business. But as I continually advise all my students, what is difficult is by definition not impossible. As a musician you'll have to work as hard as anyone else in a demanding profession, and these days the ante has risen dramatically from when I started out. A college education is almost indispensable now, as is facility in networking (real and virtual). Little wonder that Steve Khan called Rob later to find out if Rob thought Steve's advice to the kid was sound advice. These guys know the business, they cared about the kid's choices, and they gave him the straight shots.

"Christ, you know it ain't easy, you know how hard it can be..."

The situation appears to be most dire for the classic type of rock band. One thing for sure: there are more than a few metric tons of bands out there, and we all know what happens in an overcrowded field. To paraphrase what you said below, when there are fifty bands vying for the three available performance venues, perhaps you should consider getting out the rock band thing IF you intend to make a regular income at it. I would also advise being very versatile as a player.

My son recently attended a seminar on submitting your band to large summer music Festivals etc. the consensus (from the booking agents) was that your first 2 emails would get ignored, after that if you were annoyingly persistent enough you may get noticed, but then if the Facebook page wasn't impressive enough... too bad.


Well, knowing the business a little, I'd say "And so ?". Personally I'd expect to send about 20 or 30 messages. The squeaky wheel gets the grease, so squeak up ! And learn to make an impressive FB page. :) My point is, if you want to hook up with an agency you need to have what they're looking for. And then flood them with it.

In Canada large cities like Toronto basically have bands lined up begging to get into a 5 band showcase in the shittiest dives on a Monday night to play for 1/2 an hour for no money.


Yeh, that's how it was when I left LA in the late 80s, I can't imagine that that situation would change, not with the million and one bands trying to make it out there. And I can't blame the venues, they're just taking advantage of an overcrowded field. singforme's message is especially relevant in that respect, i.e. you may be considerably better off cultivating a local reputation in a smaller but far less crowded field.

Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, it all comes down to persistence, perseverance, and a lot of flexibility. In other words, "Ya gotta suffer". So learn to love the whip. :)

Best,

dp

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GMaq
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Re: How to reach public?

Postby GMaq » Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:06 pm

Hey Dave,

As always, a balanced and enlightened response from you :D

On reading over my post, it was intended as more of a 'state of the union' than a complaint, but I suppose it comes across a bit grumpy. :oops:

I had to chuckle at singforme's wise advice, for me being in a heavy blues band in rural Ontario is very much akin to being a death-metal band in the Vatican, it can definitely go both ways... if your niche is too small in low population areas then you better be prepared to gas up the van! :lol:

I'm personally in multiple part-time bands and actually had the 'problem' of playing too much (4-6 times a month), the cash flow was nice but finally the main cash cow band had to retire for a year from burnout after 25 years steady, your analogy of the dual cash/fun 'o meters could not be more correct. Anyway I digress, I very much agree with your point that those wanting a music 'career' need to work harder and smarter than ever before against mind numbing volumes of competition. I think one glimmer of hope is that in our information age there are also more resources (forums, seminars, kind-hearted industry vets like your student benefitted from) than ever before so hopefully that provides some hope. I'm a lifer, playing original music over the last few years has been a real eye-opener but I'll always find enough part-time music work in a small but busy local scene. I do feel for younger folks like my kids and artists here at LM's who have immense talent and produce top-notch material that slides far too quickly down Social Media newsfeeds never to be sought after again.

Being in middle age and having formed my personality before the pressures, pitfalls (and of course benefits) of the millenial generation, I do see a downward trend in how younger people congregate and create their own events. I've had a fortunate side-job playing music for years almost never in bars or clubs, almost always for community folks having local festivals, fundraisers, birthdays, anniversaries, and yes... weddings. As people are more isolated by addiction to technology I really think this type of local grassroots peer social interaction which is a great alternate way to make money doing music without being 'famous' will diminish as many things like Social Clubs, Church Groups etc. are languishing currently. While I wholeheartedly agree that things must change and things like patriarchal and subliminally racist Social clubs and out-of-touch organized religions must pass on, I am concerned that something new and improved is not presenting itself for true face to face community interaction and celebration (I mean outside of clubbing :lol: ). Forums are great, Facebook groups are great but not so great for playing gigs! :wink:
Last edited by GMaq on Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.


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