Song vs. Instrumental

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chaocrator
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Re: Song vs. Instrumental

Postby chaocrator » Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:58 am

musical art object :mrgreen:
or just a track, to be less serious.

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42low
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Re: Song vs. Instrumental

Postby 42low » Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:07 pm

jonetsu wrote:A song about [insert topic here] limits the scope.

Doesn't have to be. Lyrics can be ritten that they can be implemented widely.

A love song doesn't have to speak about him or her for instance.
An angry song doesn't have to mention a husband or wife for instance.
Were both stay open to be personalized.

Reminds me of song we had on hour wedding. This one was many times played on burials as it's lyrics were about "saying goodby to previous life".
But if you merry you say goodby to your previous (bachelor) life too so the lyrics fitted perfectly. :mrgreen:

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Re: Song vs. Instrumental

Postby jonetsu » Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:38 pm

42low wrote: A love song doesn't have to speak about him or her for instance.
An angry song doesn't have to mention a husband or wife for instance.


A love song will remain a love song. A song about angriness will remain about angriness. An instrumental does not restrict in such a way. A nice melody without words, nice chords, can be about love, can be about a peaceful feeling, can be about enjoying a beautiful natural scene, etc, can be all of that at the same time.

This said, songs are nice too and it's also nice to have very specific lyrics. Sometimes lyrics can even stand on their own as a text. Sometimes they can carry political views, and much more.

There are a certain quantity of South American songs that even though they have a dancing and upbeat mood can talk about very dire situations. In these songs the specific lyrics are very important.

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Re: Song vs. Instrumental

Postby 42low » Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:02 pm

jonetsu wrote:A love song will remain a love song. A song about angriness will remain about angriness. An instrumental does not restrict in such a way.


A sad instrumental won't ever be a happy song either. A happy song will annoy when your sad because it will never be a sad song. You will not chill on the couch on heavy hardcore. That exiting instrumental theme will never lower your adrenaline and that chill easy instrumental will never raise it. That happy floating "lovely" instrumental remains a love emotion too.

So what you state is partly right, but goes for instrumental too. There always are exceptions to be found, but that too goes for both.
I guess (almost know for sure) that the instrumental producers try to communicate particular emotions too and instrumental music also is restricted in it's emotional background.


Especially if you've seen the movie, this wunderfull production will never make you totally happy, or positively exited. It can give some hope, but always with sadness behind it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-c0gLBZ4CzA
And with this one you won't think about love either. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfxqZagHXbM
And what about this one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsvAI3A7c_c Confidence? Self esteame? Agression? Cool? .... Love???? Nah :?

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Re: Song vs. Instrumental

Postby jonetsu » Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:22 pm

42low wrote:I guess (almost know for sure) that the instrumental producers try to communicate particular emotions too and is also is bounded in it's emotional background.


Music is largely emotions. What I wrote a few messages back is how I (and many others) are going about with instrumental music: that it is also telling a story. The use of minor chords, their harmonies, will not be apt to bring joy, the opposite of the use of major chords. And then all the modulations in between. And then scales in other modes, other cultures. The melodies, the rhythm, the power or the lay back, all contributes to a mini journey of some sort, from the beginning to the end of the piece. Music by itself, without words, has a lot of influence on the mind and spirit. And a lot of that is mapped by techniques, for the better and for the worse. For the worse is when composers are going by the book. They are experts are theory and can produce rich set of chords instantly in any mood but... they sound so sterile in doing so. They know exactly how to string chords and melodies together to produce effects and emotions, and even though it sounds very nice, there's a feeling of "mathematics" behind their productions.

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Re: Song vs. Instrumental

Postby 42low » Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:36 pm

I totally agree.

And yeah, if lyrics are "i'm happily in love with the [insert age] old [insert name] because i met him/her in [insert local restaurant] in [insert town name] last thursday and were going to marry [insert date] in [insert place] and my mother [insert name] and father [insert name] will cry" .... yeah, than it's limited. 8)

But there can be tactical "maths" in lyrics too. This line above can be implemented/recalculated to "everyone" (look at the end of this reaction :wink: ).
I say that if you write lyrics around "happy" (or "sad") without mentioning detail everyone can feel happy (or sad) with it no matter if he's in love, happy (or sad) with his life, job, car, studio, or whatever. Happy (or sad) is different for everyone and as much to be wide as instrumental music is.
You can keep lyrics that wide that they can appeal everyone’s personal emotional experience.

That was my main reaction on your statement. That statement can't be brought as an overal truth, and opposite can be exactly as relevant for instrumental too.
42low wrote:
jonetsu wrote:A song about [insert topic here] limits the scope.

Doesn't have to be. Lyrics can be ritten that they can be implemented widely.


"I fell in love. (with who'm? when?)
At a local restaurant. (can be any restaurant in the word)
want to live forever together. (Marying? living together? LAT relation? Whatever one wants)
so we can be happy (standard relation? or non-standard? Weird even?)
and everyone around me will be happy too" (mom and dad? Kids perhaps? neighbours? friends? Cat or dog? who ever is around YOU! :wink: )

No limits for personal emotional experience :mrgreen:
Yeah love, but an instrumental around love won't ever be a sad song either.

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Re: Song vs. Instrumental

Postby jonetsu » Tue May 01, 2018 12:08 am

Yes, but a love song remains a love song, because somewhere in the words there'll be "love" along with a suggestion that it's not a broken love or something like that, and is indeed a love song.

And then there's the factor on language. So far we all assume everyone understands English. So in such a case we can have words that are not understood although the human voice carries emotions. In which case it becomes an instrumental in a way. For instance this great performance by Tan WeiWei:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYOzzmrYqkM

It's full of emotions but you will not be able to tell what it is about. The human voice, when one does not understand the words becomes more of an instrument.

And it can also by ambiguous. For instance here, are they angry about something ? Hanggai:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvW8JEuIo58

And even more, when song becomes story-telling of emotions pertaining to environmental states, then the meaning is well hidden in the language, and the music - and the vocals - remains as instruments. Värttinä:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KSltodtEMU

Songs with words, but then, songs with words we understand. If not, it becomes an instrumental, a boosted instrumental becomes there's no instrument that can replace the human voice. 8)


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