RFC: Chords, guitar diagrams, and digital file-names.

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merlyn
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Re: RFC: Chords, guitar diagrams, and digital file-names.

Post by merlyn »

D-Tuned wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:50 pm Make yourself 200-300 chord diagrams ...
It's a lot less stuff to learn the notes in triads. Twelve things.

C -- C E G
G -- G B D
D -- D F# A
A -- A C# E
E -- E G# B
B -- B D# F#
F#/Gb -- F# A# C#/Gb Bb Db
Db -- Db F Ab
Ab -- Ab C Eb
Eb -- Eb G Bb
Bb -- Bb D F
F -- F A C

To make use of that you need to know the notes on the neck, which is still less stuff. 6 x 12 = 72.
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Re: RFC: Chords, guitar diagrams, and digital file-names.

Post by milo »

There are still plenty if caverns to explore in this rabbit hole!
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Re: RFC: Chords, guitar diagrams, and digital file-names.

Post by D-Tuned »

milo wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 1:19 pm There are still plenty if caverns to explore in this rabbit hole!
you can say that again!

But I've cut back on the volume by staying within the first 9 frets (my fingers) and only up to the dominant 7s and 6s (maybe a couple more to be added). I don't have much use for the 9s, 11's and 13s for now. All in all this drops the requirement to about 1/6 of the immediately imaginable combinations i.e. maybe 180 in all. Got 1/3 done, the first four keys, including mistakes. I notice that most of the peculiar file-name symbology only comes into play in the case of chords rendered weird by the guitar's constraints. Some ambiguities still pop up but I'm generally happy with the progress. The final chord workout video I'll make me will be around 50 minutes long (everything done with gimp, jack, qsynth, rosegarden, audacity, kdenlive).

table-part.png
table-part.png (178.4 KiB) Viewed 19524 times
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Re: RFC: Chords, guitar diagrams, and digital file-names.

Post by D-Tuned »

merlyn wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 1:17 pm
D-Tuned wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:50 pm Make yourself 200-300 chord diagrams ...
It's a lot less stuff to learn the notes in triads. Twelve things.

C -- C E G
G -- G B D
D -- D F# A
A -- A C# E
E -- E G# B
B -- B D# F#
F#/Gb -- F# A# C#/Gb Bb Db
Db -- Db F Ab
Ab -- Ab C Eb
Eb -- Eb G Bb
Bb -- Bb D F
F -- F A C

To make use of that you need to know the notes on the neck, which is still less stuff. 6 x 12 = 72.
All that should come as an effortless byproduct of running every day a 1 hour workout video of randomized chords with audio; in one exercise, repeated no-end, I hope to get the sounds, the inverted voicings, the moods, the finger muscle-memory, as well as the fretboard notes into my blood.
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Re: RFC: Chords, guitar diagrams, and digital file-names.

Post by Loki Harfagr »

And please don't forget one of the essential chords (at least for I or Scriabin, and a few others more or less significant fellows ;)
one example in C, as a TAB (standard undropped E on a standard 6 strings western guitar) tuning it would read:

Code: Select all

---10---
---10---
---9----
---8----
---9----
---8----
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Re: RFC: Chords, guitar diagrams, and digital file-names.

Post by D-Tuned »

Loki Harfagr wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:55 pm And please don't forget one of the essential chords (at least for I or Scriabin, and a few others more or less significant fellows ;)
one example in C, as a TAB (standard undropped E on a standard 6 strings western guitar) tuning it would read:

Code: Select all

---10---
---10---
---9----
---8----
---9----
---8----
I wouldn't think of omitting it though I don't think I would ever try to finger what chorderator.com in its confusion calls

C9b5add6, or D9addA#/C, or A#augmaj13/C, or E13sus4no5/C, or F#aug13addA/C, or Am6addA#add4/C
(so much for the existing system or WTF)

However MY naming would be more like Am6+A#+4¦C to hint the last one of the above, or even Am6¦3P1+A#×4 both of which would still be much shorter AND filesystem-legal.

The diagram and sound could resemble the following

test.png
test.png (18.85 KiB) Viewed 19490 times
test.mp3
(39.33 KiB) Downloaded 160 times
Just in passing, since as I've said every diagram must have a unique file-name I'd be curious if you had any practical suggestions in the scope of what is after all THE posted topic
Artificial-Stupidity will never be competitive
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Re: RFC: Chords, guitar diagrams, and digital file-names.

Post by Loki Harfagr »

Well on the contrary I was especially hoping to see your namings to see how your system would build its name and which name or names it'll end up as with.
That way I might have had a better understanding or at least perception on why to avoid learning chines you were trying to create a similar overkill though beautiful form of gramogols to name some logograms which describe for various specific instruments the shape of a systemic global naming scheme ;)
(Don't read me wrong I'm totally with you on the effort of doing tremendous things to avoid using previously written and used methods, when a kid I spent almost two years to "invent" my method of building lines and chords and so on to avoid opening these horrible books of classical western instrumentation/harmony my teach told me to. In the end I finally read them 15 years later and I must say most of them made a better/clearer job to organize and describe the stuff than my kid self but in the end I already had most of the pulp so it was mostly time lost for my teachs but not too much for me, so go on and just don't expect most everyone will understand at first sight ;)
)

If I had to give it a name at this time I'd probably go for a root-type name, example for the C given initial example:
C-mystic, C-prometheus or even C-scriabin though he mostly used it as arpeggi or constructions.

As for the remark on the fingering that some chords identifiers bots give I'm fully on your side :) they can sometimes propose some stuff even Metheny, Holdsworth or Vai wouldn't :D that's the reason why I Tabbed it in its one [and only] easy tab scheme.
If you would really break guitaristas hands try a "french sixth" chord form, quite same content than previous but not the same tensions:

Here in F#:

Code: Select all

---10---
---10---
---5----
---8----
---7----
---2----
Note that the same in E is much easier but not a frequently used one:

Code: Select all

---8----
---8----
---3----
---6----
---5----
---0----
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Re: RFC: Chords, guitar diagrams, and digital file-names.

Post by merlyn »

D-Tuned wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:33 am Am6¦3P1+A#×4
That's wrong, looks ugly and is a yard long. Using numbers for inversions is plain stupid.

In the system you're so contemptuous of the chord Loki Harfagr posted is C13b5.
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Re: RFC: Chords, guitar diagrams, and digital file-names.

Post by D-Tuned »

merlyn wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 11:34 am
D-Tuned wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:33 am Am6¦3P1+A#×4
That's wrong, looks ugly and is a yard long. Using numbers for inversions is plain stupid.
Shorter than the cited alternatives, the rest is debatable but you have a right to your opinion.

In the system you're so contemptuous of the chord Loki Harfagr posted is C13b5.

Here are some chord diagrams to go with C13b5:
http://www.chorderator.com/?optionsDisp ... =0&size=30

I'll wait for your version of a unique and descriptive file-name for each usable one.
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Re: RFC: Chords, guitar diagrams, and digital file-names.

Post by merlyn »

D-Tuned wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 9:25 pm I'll wait for your version of a unique and descriptive file-name for each usable one.
I'm not convinced of the wisdom of me doing this as, up to this point, you have ploughed on regardless of what anyone has said. If I were to do this I wouldn't put as much emphasis on short file names.

Do you see what is wrong with this : Am6¦3P1+A#×4 ?

(You can blame the chorderator bot if you want.)
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Re: RFC: Chords, guitar diagrams, and digital file-names.

Post by D-Tuned »

merlyn wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 4:54 pm
D-Tuned wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 9:25 pm I'll wait for your version of a unique and descriptive file-name for each usable one.
I'm not convinced of the wisdom of me doing this as, up to this point, you have ploughed on regardless of what anyone has said. If I were to do this I wouldn't put as much emphasis on short file names.

Do you see what is wrong with this : Am6¦3P1+A#×4 ?

(You can blame the chorderator bot if you want.)
I get nothing out of blaming chorderator, it was simply a theoretical illustration by my self enjoying an almost total lack of musical knowhow. A more material example from my albeit limited perspective would be
D7⁋3×1_0600.png
D7⁋3×1_0600.png (22.08 KiB) Viewed 19291 times
where the rich slow strum D7 chord although no inversion has a 3rd in the top of the triad and a high root above it all, you gotta hear it
D7⁋3×1_0600.mp3
(189.12 KiB) Downloaded 162 times
As for the file names the alpha part of which also has to fit above the iconized chord diagram box of some 120 pixels in width and still be readable when printed about 25 cells wide on a landscape oriented standard sheet ....well, it's not as easy as it is necessary.

But dread naught, the work is DONE, because I'm the gitter-done type, and should be up on the net in a day :D
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Re: RFC: Chords, guitar diagrams, and digital file-names.

Post by merlyn »

Chords, guitar diagrams, and digital file names are three separate things.

If the title of this thread was "Conflating chords, guitar diagrams, and digital file names into an incomprehensible mess" I would get it.
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Re: RFC: Chords, guitar diagrams, and digital file-names.

Post by D-Tuned »

D-Tuned wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:54 pm Reformatting another thread about chord types and names, my
hope here is to get pro and con comments and mostly technical
corrections for any fubars for which I also am known! It all started
with me trying to make my own music learning easier but the
project has taken a life of its own and has already devoured more
time than the quintessential meditation with a beer in hand.
3 weeks later, there's a high resolution table and a video. There
are 3-4 chords that I can not physically finger, they will be removed.
Another 4 somehow did not survive the kdenlive session of trying
to put over 50 minutes worth of 16 second clips (over 200) into
random order, they will be included once identified. A very few are
very likely just plain wrong, consider them hearing tests. I may or
may not work on the extra 7 chords or anything above 7's at some
later date, I'll probably just leave those to them that use them.

https://tinyurl.com/ch7mpb6h

You may do as you please with the stuff, I need no creds or
brass bands, Merryl has already obliged :D
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Re: RFC: Chords, guitar diagrams, and digital file-names.

Post by D-Tuned »

merlyn wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:39 pm Chords, guitar diagrams, and digital file names are three separate things.

If the title of this thread was "Conflating chords, guitar diagrams, and digital file names into an incomprehensible mess" I would get it.
Works for me, and by "mostly technical corrections" I meant
things like 'hey, that's a C7 and not a C major' ...sort of.
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Re: RFC: Chords, guitar diagrams, and digital file-names.

Post by merlyn »

D-Tuned wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:29 pm ... although no inversion has a 3rd in the top of the triad and a high root above it all ...
Would this do? Just use the TAB as is. On your guitar it's | D7 / Gmaj7 / | or | !£$%^ / £$%& / |

Image
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