RFC: Chords, guitar diagrams, and digital file-names.

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D-Tuned
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Re: RFC: Chords, guitar diagrams, and digital file-names.

Post by D-Tuned »

merlyn wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:22 am
There are thousands of chord charts around that use the accepted chord notation. Why cut yourself off from that?
But the answer is in your own sig :D

It's a rainy coastal day here so I'm reading up on extended chords, much of that is UFN as it were in my project. But there are already three settled issues if for no other reason than the fact that a slash cannot be in a file-name.

The "Add" invention is nice but it takes up 3 characters whereas the ideal symbol + is only one. If the + sign was deployed to indicate 'augmented' that was a monumentally bad choice, sooner than later someone' going to correct the mistake anyway so for my own use that's going to be now.

Similarly the chord file-name has to reveal as much as possible because every diagram HAS to have a unique name. Every chord that sounds different in any way IS a different chord even if it's been called by the same name and every different chord must have a diagram of it's own. It's a can of worms that could easily be fixed with 30 character long file names but those would then be unusable in human terms. Stuffing string and fret #'s into it gives a more unique file-name without going overboard.

But problems arise enroute. Take for example these C chords with tentative provisional file-names

a basic C triad 1st inversion
C¦3_0110.png
C¦3_0110.png (10.15 KiB) Viewed 19399 times



the same basic C triad with an extra 1st in the bottom making it lean toward the same file-name because it's also a 1st inversion with the root on the #01 string at the 10th fret but I cannot have duplicate file-names so interim I gave it a -L1
C¦3_0110-L1.png
C¦3_0110-L1.png (10.17 KiB) Viewed 19399 times


but if I reconfigure the above (conceptually only because it's still the same chord) to do away with the inversion then the root goes to string #04 at fret #0 i.e. open-string giving me a different file-name.
C×1_0400.png
C×1_0400.png (10.16 KiB) Viewed 19399 times
This is the kind of problem I have to work around in many different situations. The likely outcome of the above will be that I simply kill the -L1 version which is in name only anyway and keep the other two.
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Re: RFC: Chords, guitar diagrams, and digital file-names.

Post by merlyn »

D-Tuned wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:49 pm The "Add" invention is nice but it takes up 3 characters whereas the ideal symbol + is only one. If the + sign was deployed to indicate 'augmented' that was a monumentally bad choice ...
Sorry to tell you this but + for augmented isn't going away any time soon. If this is a language then language is defined through usage. What you're doing is like wanting to change the name of a banana to a 'squoink'. :lol:
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Re: RFC: Chords, guitar diagrams, and digital file-names.

Post by milo »

merlyn wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:43 pm What you're doing is like wanting to change the name of a banana to a 'squoink'. :lol:
There's precedent for doing things like that. (see: "Esperanto")
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Re: RFC: Chords, guitar diagrams, and digital file-names.

Post by D-Tuned »

merlyn wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:43 pm
D-Tuned wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:49 pm The "Add" invention is nice but it takes up 3 characters whereas the ideal symbol + is only one. If the + sign was deployed to indicate 'augmented' that was a monumentally bad choice ...
Sorry to tell you this but + for augmented isn't going away any time soon. If this is a language then language is defined through usage. What you're doing is like wanting to change the name of a banana to a 'squoink'. :lol:
Well, Dim got replaced by "º", and I could be wrong but how long have the 13's or the No5's been around?

Moot point mind you, because I'm doing what I do for myself :)
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Re: RFC: Chords, guitar diagrams, and digital file-names.

Post by D-Tuned »

merlyn wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:22 am
D-Tuned wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 1:00 am

You lost me again, I thought there were only 2 triad inversions: in the 1st inversion the 3rd falls back below the root, in the 2nd inversion the 5th falls back below the root (no inversion assigned to the 5th and 3rd switching places). The 3rd inversion is possible only with 4 note chords and then it means the at the 4th note falls back below the root. Is THIS correct?
No.
I went back to see if I need a wheel alignment with this, still not sure...

Simply put, in a 1st inversion 135 becomes 351 as in the next 2 cases

4th string OPEN C 1 Red
3rd string 11 D# 3 Black
2nd string 10 G 5 Gold
1st string 10 C (×1) (red) ignore
C×1_0400.png
C×1_0400.png (10.16 KiB) Viewed 19350 times

3rd string 11 D# 3 Black
2nd string 10 G 5 Gold
1st string 10 C 1 Red
C¦3_0110.png
C¦3_0110.png (10.15 KiB) Viewed 19350 times

The 2nd inversion where 135 becomes 513 would look like:
5th string OPEN G 5 Gold
4th string OPEN C 1 Red
3rd string 10 D# 3 Black
C¦5_0400.png
C¦5_0400.png (10.23 KiB) Viewed 19350 times

Is THIS correct then?
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Re: RFC: Chords, guitar diagrams, and digital file-names.

Post by D-Tuned »

D-Tuned wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 2:29 am Is THIS correct then?
No

What I missed is that the triad notes that are not affected
by the inversion must remain where they were on the staff
and another must go less than an octave from the top or
bottom so as to arrive at the new interval sequence.

An "A" triad 135:
A_0304.png
A_0304.png (16.21 KiB) Viewed 19342 times
Its 1st inversion 351:
A¦3_0212.png
A¦3_0212.png (16.26 KiB) Viewed 19342 times
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Re: RFC: Chords, guitar diagrams, and digital file-names.

Post by merlyn »

D-Tuned wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:59 pm Well, Dim got replaced by "º" ...
They're both in use.

Question : What is the chord symbol for E minor major ninth?

One answer is :

I don't know, but I do know it's the chord at the end of the James Bond Theme.

Another answer is :

It depends who you ask.

One system in use is the system used by The Sher Music Co. for their New Real Books.

Image

That's good, but I don't use it when writing charts out by hand.

Image

Not the neatest as I wrote it on the train on the way to a rehearsal. :)
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Re: RFC: Chords, guitar diagrams, and digital file-names.

Post by D-Tuned »

merlyn wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 2:32 pm
D-Tuned wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:59 pm Well, Dim got replaced by "º" ...
They're both in use.

Question : What is the chord symbol for E minor major ninth?
just a guess:
Em+9 (EmAdd9 for mortals)

or as an extension in which case the 8 has to be qualified as Major

EmM9

I'm sidelining any chord past 7 to cut down on the work
until I get some videos going

..brings up another question: my cheat-sheet says that an
unqualified 7 such as in C7 refers to the default 7 which
is a minor 7 (1 ♭3 5 ♭7). But then how do we label a
'dominant' 7 (1 3 5 ♭7)? I'm starting to get dizzy!


Also to further reduce ambiguity I'm going to give separate
file-names to triads and chords (chord including more than
one instance of any triad note). The existing underscore will
separate the front of TRIAD such as in Cm_*** but a right
double-quote "»" will introduce fuller 'chords'. Don't yet know
how different filesystems will handle it. :evil:

Again, the reason being that every diagram must have a unique
file-name. A triad like Cm diminished will bw Cmº_0000.png
but a fuller chord will be Cmº»0000.png.
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Re: RFC: Chords, guitar diagrams, and digital file-names.

Post by D-Tuned »

merlyn wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 2:32 pm
D-Tuned wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:59 pm Well, Dim got replaced by "º" ...
They're both in use.
I'm after the shortest preferably single-character ones for file-names. I'm making good progress but keep forgetting to test every new charcater for filesystem-friendliness BEFORE any other work. Just tried to incorporate the right arrow (>) but edited about 50 duiagrams with it before realizing that it couldn't work either.

[/quote]
One system in use is the system used by The Sher Music Co. for their New Real Books.

Image

That's good, but I don't use it when writing charts out by hand.
[/quote]

I glanced at their site, which book is THAT in?

Looking at the page I thought it was an exercise in C chords, and am lost at some of those 8-note chords seeing that 6 is max on 6-string guitars :-)
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Re: RFC: Chords, guitar diagrams, and digital file-names.

Post by D-Tuned »

here's what a draft line looks like

_ separates alpha from numeric (» only to avoid duplicate names)
¦ = separator for "slash/bass" chords or low triad note if not root (inversion)
C¦D = C on D bass, C¦5 = C second triad inversion (5th is low note)
º = diminished
^ = augmented
+ = Add
¡5 = No5 (inverted exl. mark = negation)
× = shiningstar, highest triad note in entire chord (1, 3 , 5)
= reversed pilcrow = top triad note if 1 or 3
The appended numeric not shown (0x string number, 0y fret number)
A-row-left.png
A-row-left.png (110.15 KiB) Viewed 19031 times
I made the capture with Vivaldi, it sometime messes up the gold colors. The practice video shows random chords for 5 seconds then slow-strums the chord 4 times (mp4 or mp3 file too large).

So far with the above I have never had to use the disambiguating "»" separator
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Re: RFC: Chords, guitar diagrams, and digital file-names.

Post by merlyn »

D-Tuned wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:54 pm Reformatting another thread about chord types and names, my
hope here is to get pro and con comments and mostly technical
corrections for any fubars for which I also am known!
Total fubar.

I've explained why in previous posts.
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Re: RFC: Chords, guitar diagrams, and digital file-names.

Post by Loki Harfagr »

merlyn wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:20 pm
D-Tuned wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:54 pm Reformatting another thread about chord types and names, my
hope here is to get pro and con comments and mostly technical
corrections for any fubars for which I also am known!
Total fubar.

I've explained why in previous posts.
That's correct, though it really was worth the pain and laughter to try to read all this stuff and try to imagine what could possibly make a mind think all of this as a clarification of anything (what that anything could possibly be is "mucher and mucher" beyond my imagination).
And all these strange pictures and chords names also have some sheer artistic or humorous value at some places and in some way it could be related to some smbc stuff, not unlikely even some very recent ones are on the same topic and level of imagination ;)
https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/math-4

(hope I put enough smileys to pass the dreaded jeffmodlevel, if any missing please let each reader add as much as necessary to his own taste)
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Re: RFC: Chords, guitar diagrams, and digital file-names.

Post by D-Tuned »

Loki Harfagr wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:58 pm
merlyn wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:20 pm
D-Tuned wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:54 pm Reformatting another thread about chord types and names, my
hope here is to get pro and con comments and mostly technical
corrections for any fubars for which I also am known!
Total fubar.

I've explained why in previous posts.
That's correct, though it really was worth the pain and laughter to try to read all this stuff and try to imagine what could possibly make a mind think all of this as a clarification of anything (what that anything could possibly be is "mucher and mucher" beyond my imagination).
And all these strange pictures and chords names also have some sheer artistic or humorous value at some places and in some way it could be related to some smbc stuff, not unlikely even some very recent ones are on the same topic and level of imagination ;)
https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/math-4

(hope I put enough smileys to pass the dreaded jeffmodlevel, if any missing please let each reader add as much as necessary to his own taste)
I'm making myself a chord chart custom made for my tuning and my fingers, diagrams that tell me more than what's on the market and even the file-names do so before I so much as look at the diagrams. Make yourself 200-300 chord diagrams and solve all the duplicate file-name, ambiguity, illegal-character and similar issues without yard-long and otherwise unreadable numbers and let us know how you did it. I've already learned a lot without even trying in the process and am learning more every day, not to mention how the charts and training videos will help me learn even more soon.
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Re: RFC: Chords, guitar diagrams, and digital file-names.

Post by milo »

I once made an animation a frame at a time in the GIMP, editing single pixels across frames. The end result was not worth the time I spent on it, but the creative process was an invaluable education. I still use skills I developed on that project.

Another time in medical school I spent several weeks drawing comic strips to help me learn and memorize medical pharmacology. The drawings were terrible, and the comics were stupid, but I learned a lot of pharmacology that way. I still think of my silly stories and characters when I write prescriptions.

The time is not wasted so long as you learn from it.
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Re: RFC: Chords, guitar diagrams, and digital file-names.

Post by D-Tuned »

milo wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 1:20 am I once made an animation a frame at a time in the GIMP, editing single pixels across frames. The end result was not worth the time I spent on it, but the creative process was an invaluable education. I still use skills I developed on that project.

Another time in medical school I spent several weeks drawing comic strips to help me learn and memorize medical pharmacology. The drawings were terrible, and the comics were stupid, but I learned a lot of pharmacology that way. I still think of my silly stories and characters when I write prescriptions.

The time is not wasted so long as you learn from it.
I wrote two relatively serious programs in my life, an astrology one and a historical lie detector; In retrospect I guess that I wanted to learn history which had been the only subject I'd ever flunked but made up for the shortfall by flunking it twice. Otherwise I'd been always first or second in class. Once I got far enough with the astrology one to understand things I lost all interest, never completed it, proving that learning was in fact my only underlying motivation. This last time I took up music it wasn't to become a musician but to forestall brain-rot, dreading the day when it wears off and I have to find something new, like learning chinese. I don't really wanna learn chinese so maybe I should slow down with music to make it last although it seems to be snowballing instead.
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