Confused by treble/base key sigs

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D-Tuned
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Confused by treble/base key sigs

Post by D-Tuned »

I got used to using the treble-8 clef for guitar and the base-8 clef for base BECAUSE it gives the same notes on the same staff lines.
treble-base-clefs.png
treble-base-clefs.png (22.27 KiB) Viewed 8544 times
But I get thrown by the placement of the accidentals on the base-8 staff, the accidentals being one line lower than the treble clef ones. Case in point (above) in the key of F there is ONE flat (Bb) and this is shown by a flat on the middle line as THE key sig. Shouldn't it be the same in the base clef, it also being in the key of F with a single flat Bb on the same middle-line?
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Michael Willis
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Re: Confused by treble/base key sigs

Post by Michael Willis »

These two clefs do not have the same notes on the same staff lines. The first note in your bass notation is A. Both of them have a B flat in the key signature.

This is one of those artifacts of musical history that can be confusing. If I understand correctly, there used to be a grand staff with 11 lines, the middle line being middle C. That middle line was removed, and the grand staff was replaced by two staves: one with treble clef, one with bass clef. The table clef corresponds to the top five lines of the grand staph, and the bass clef corresponds to the bottom five lines of the grand staff.
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Re: Confused by treble/base key sigs

Post by merlyn »

You could also think on a treble clef as a G clef and a bass clef as an F clef.

The curly treble clef is a stylised G and it curls around the line that is G.

The bass clef is a stylised F and the two dots are on either side of the line that is F.
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Re: Confused by treble/base key sigs

Post by davephillips »

Gardner Read's Music Notation is still an excellent standard guide:

https://www.amazon.com/Gardner-Read-Not ... B00HTJTMGS

(Ignore the ridiculous asking price for the hardcover. Cheap used paperbacks are available.)

Best regards,

dp
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Re: Confused by treble/base key sigs

Post by D-Tuned »

Michael Willis wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 2:44 am These two clefs do not have the same notes on the same staff lines. The first note in your bass notation is A. Both of them have a B flat in the key signature.

This is one of those artifacts of musical history that can be confusing. If I understand correctly, there used to be a grand staff with 11 lines, the middle line being middle C. That middle line was removed, and the grand staff was replaced by two staves: one with treble clef, one with bass clef. The table clef corresponds to the top five lines of the grand staph, and the bass clef corresponds to the bottom five lines of the grand staff.
I have no idea where I got the idea that they did show notes on the same lines! And there I went strutting my base notes which were anything but bass, funny thing is they didn't sound THAT bad so either they sounded OK or my ears are those of someone who should stay away from music :lol:

Thanks for the alert, real bass notes do sound better:
real-bass-notes.png
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Re: Confused by treble/base key sigs

Post by D-Tuned »

merlyn wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:20 am You could also think on a treble clef as a G clef and a bass clef as an F clef.

The curly treble clef is a stylised G and it curls around the line that is G.

The bass clef is a stylised F and the two dots are on either side of the line that is F.
Excellent aide-memoire, thank you. The progression cited is BTW
my Minor jam progression discussed in the other thread.
Artificial-Stupidity will never be competitive
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