key of G# major?

Ask general music theory or songwriting questions, get feedback!

Moderators: MattKingUSA, khz

Post Reply
D-Tuned
Established Member
Posts: 288
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2021 3:58 am
Location: 48th parallel
Has thanked: 48 times
Been thanked: 9 times

key of G# major?

Post by D-Tuned »

2 jam tracks:

Ab major: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRGwoMBPhLU

G# major: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0hFi65uYg8

same piece, same chords, NOT the same video

I'm a little confused, especially since there is no G# major key

what's the point or the difference?
merlyn
Established Member
Posts: 1392
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:13 pm
Has thanked: 168 times
Been thanked: 247 times

Re: key of G# major?

Post by merlyn »

D-Tuned wrote:I'm a little confused, especially since there is no G# major key
In theory there could be -- it's just a bit bonkers to use it. G# has 8 sharps (all the notes sharp with one of them being a double sharp). Ab has four flats, which is a bit easier, don't you think?
User avatar
raboof
Established Member
Posts: 1855
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:58 am
Location: Deventer, NL
Has thanked: 50 times
Been thanked: 74 times
Contact:

Re: key of G# major?

Post by raboof »

D-Tuned wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:43 am what's the point or the difference?
I suspect they added them in both variations just so people who search for G# major will also get search results... but indeed I don't suspect there will be many ;).

Perhaps they have some automatic transposition going on that makes it easy to upload the track in different keys?
User avatar
Loki Harfagr
Established Member
Posts: 268
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:28 pm
Has thanked: 151 times
Been thanked: 53 times

Re: key of G# major?

Post by Loki Harfagr »

I tend to the same interpretation as @raboof gave you :)

As a complement for any doubt about the 30 actually existing keys you can see that spurious live conf'' by Victor Wooten, it's short, precise and quite funny don't hesitate ;)
https://youtu.be/E3vYVGMgZYY
Gps
Established Member
Posts: 1136
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:09 pm
Has thanked: 331 times
Been thanked: 112 times

Re: key of G# major?

Post by Gps »

A scale is minor or mayor. A key by it self is not mayor or minor. Hope this helps ?
User avatar
Loki Harfagr
Established Member
Posts: 268
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:28 pm
Has thanked: 151 times
Been thanked: 53 times

Re: key of G# major?

Post by Loki Harfagr »

Gps wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:52 pm A scale is minor or mayor. A key by it self is not mayor or minor. Hope this helps ?
I'd bet that's more confusing than helping since it's vague and wrong while approximate in either field ;) But I will never start a war on this as I know or at least used to be able to live that any step might some time find the actual stairway :)

Maybe should we tag these two posts as off-topic now :D
Gps
Established Member
Posts: 1136
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:09 pm
Has thanked: 331 times
Been thanked: 112 times

Re: key of G# major?

Post by Gps »

If it confusing he should just ignore me, but I do not understand why you say it is not right.

I watched the vid posted by Loki Harfagr, after I had commented, and that dude says about the same thing at one point.
D-Tuned
Established Member
Posts: 288
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2021 3:58 am
Location: 48th parallel
Has thanked: 48 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: key of G# major?

Post by D-Tuned »

merlyn wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:36 pm
D-Tuned wrote:I'm a little confused, especially since there is no G# major key
In theory there could be -- it's just a bit bonkers to use it. G# has 8 sharps (all the notes sharp with one of them being a double sharp). Ab has four flats, which is a bit easier, don't you think?
I try to be practical, is a key based on a physical note of a single specific frequency or on one of possibly many ways to represent that note? G# is the same note a Ab. When I posted the question, strictly as a student breaking out in pimples trying to make head out of tails, I was really expecting responses like 'that creep should get himself a tuning fork'. But no (and with this I don't mean to characterize YOUR response), what I get is no end of bleeding-edge-theory-A beating the royal crap out of bleeding-edge-theory-B ...or trying to :lol:

I've made up my mind: there is NO G# major, end of story! There are NO 8 accidentals at the bottom of MY 5ths circle diagram
Attachments
5ths-500.png
5ths-500.png (28.77 KiB) Viewed 11558 times
Artificial-Stupidity will never be competitive
User avatar
Loki Harfagr
Established Member
Posts: 268
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:28 pm
Has thanked: 151 times
Been thanked: 53 times

Re: key of G# major?

Post by Loki Harfagr »

Quite good conclusion :)

@Gps, it is correct that Wootens details that some of the people answering to him are mixing up scales, modes with keys :)

To sum up his answer in a different systematic order, there are (if there are no typos) :
7 majors keys using sharps (#) G D A E B F# C#
7 minors keys using sharps (#) the relatives of the above
7 majors keys using flats (b) F Bb Eb Ab Db Gb Cb
7 minors keys using flats (b) the relatives of the above
1 major key without any accidental (C)
1 minor key without any accidental (Am, the relative of the above)

then, anyone especially a program or a youtube overposter still can abuse the term and decide to call Ab major G# major and then has to abuse the use of superfluous double-accidental but that might be considered as a bug or a choice ;)
merlyn
Established Member
Posts: 1392
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:13 pm
Has thanked: 168 times
Been thanked: 247 times

Re: key of G# major?

Post by merlyn »

D-Tuned wrote:But no (and with this I don't mean to characterize YOUR response), what I get is no end of bleeding-edge-theory-A beating the royal crap out of bleeding-edge-theory-B ...or trying to :lol:

I've made up my mind: there is NO G# major, end of story! There are NO 8 accidentals at the bottom of MY 5ths circle diagram
I see. Well, you stick to your diagram. No offence, but this is not bleeding edge theory. This is very, very basic theory.

It would conceivably be possible to end up in G# major if a piece started in C#, then changed key. It would require less accidentals to change key to G# than Ab from C#.
Gps
Established Member
Posts: 1136
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:09 pm
Has thanked: 331 times
Been thanked: 112 times

Re: key of G# major?

Post by Gps »

@Gps, it is correct that Wootens details that some of the people answering to him are mixing up scales, modes with keys :)

To sum up his answer in a different systematic order, there are (if there are no typos) :
7 majors keys using sharps (#) G D A E B F# C#
7 minors keys using sharps (#) the relatives of the above
7 majors keys using flats (b) F Bb Eb Ab Db Gb Cb
7 minors keys using flats (b) the relatives of the above
1 major key without any accidental (C)
1 minor key without any accidental (Am, the relative of the above)

then, anyone especially a program or a youtube overposter still can abuse the term and decide to call Ab major G# major and then has to abuse the use of superfluous double-accidental but that might be considered as a bug or a choice ;)
Well it might be just me, but calling a key on a piano major or minor confuses the heck out of me.
I had that happen to me recently, when watching a you tube vid, and he said to play an A major.
I was 10 min in total confusing staring at the piano roll in LMMS, and then decided to ignore the major part and inserted an A. :)
User avatar
raboof
Established Member
Posts: 1855
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:58 am
Location: Deventer, NL
Has thanked: 50 times
Been thanked: 74 times
Contact:

Re: key of G# major?

Post by raboof »

Gps wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:49 am Well it might be just me, but calling a key on a piano major or minor confuses the heck out of me.
Aaaah now I understand what you mean. The word 'key' unfortunately has multiple meanings. Indeed a 'key on a keyboard or piano' is not major or minor. The 'key a piece is set in' is, though, definitely is - in that context is roughly means 'scale' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_(music) .
D-Tuned
Established Member
Posts: 288
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2021 3:58 am
Location: 48th parallel
Has thanked: 48 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: key of G# major?

Post by D-Tuned »

raboof wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:55 pm I suspect they added them in both variations just so people who search for G# major will also get search results... but indeed I don't suspect there will be many ;).

Perhaps they have some automatic transposition going on that makes it easy to upload the track in different keys?
it's a different video, different colors, background and all, i don't think it was automation. Doing a u-tube search for 'jam G sharp major' does turn up a few others.
merlyn
Established Member
Posts: 1392
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:13 pm
Has thanked: 168 times
Been thanked: 247 times

Re: key of G# major?

Post by merlyn »

Guitarists tend to like sharps, saxophonists tend to like flats. Jazzers like flats, rockers like sharps. Old school jazzers think E is a weird key the same way rockers think Bb is weird. "Why not make it A and then I get all those open strings?" :) At a gig it's good to play in a variety of keys, rather than always playing in keys that are friendly to the instrument in question.

It's a question of spelling. What's the right spelling? Color or colour? It depends on where you are and the same is true of spelling chords and scales.

The circle of fifths will get you pretty far and it is worth noting that the (number of flats to notate a key) + (number of sharps to notate a key) = 12

Take F# -- 6 sharps which is enharmonically (that's the technical term) equivalent to Gb -- 6 flats.

Or Ab -- 4 flats, G# -- 8 sharps.

Now you can take this to a ridiculous extreme with C -- 0 sharps = B# -- 12 sharps = Dbb = 12 flats :)

Once you know that you can forget about it and apply the rule instead of music theory seeming like an endless amount of stuff you have to memorise.
Gps
Established Member
Posts: 1136
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:09 pm
Has thanked: 331 times
Been thanked: 112 times

Re: key of G# major?

Post by Gps »

raboof wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:14 pm
Gps wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:49 am Well it might be just me, but calling a key on a piano major or minor confuses the heck out of me.
Aaaah now I understand what you mean. The word 'key' unfortunately has multiple meanings. Indeed a 'key on a keyboard or piano' is not major or minor. The 'key a piece is set in' is, though, definitely is - in that context is roughly means 'scale' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_(music) .
Lol, I am starting to dislike the English language :P

Something about free software. In my native language, there are two words for this free. One when you don't have to pay anything, and one were your free to change and share it.

But now I do understand why my reply got marked as incorrect. :) We were not talking about he same key.
Post Reply