Can this be done in a daw ?

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Gps
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Can this be done in a daw ?

Postby Gps » Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:42 pm

I hope this is the right place to ask this.

I am kinda working on some hip hop mix, were all tracks are made in LMMS, without any samples, and are instrumental covers of the originals.


I already have:
Gangster rap made me do it - Ice Cube
Still Dre - Dre

Something hip hop style I made myself

Rapper delight
Jam on it - Newclues

I would like to add Kurtis blow - These are the breaks, because of that guitar rif I Iove, but I am 100% lost on how to do this in a daw if its even possible.

For those that go Kurtis who ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZDUEilS5M4

And a how to play vid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEY8qCxXLcU

Gps
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Re: Can this be done in a daw ?

Postby Gps » Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:54 pm

I do not want to sample. :)

I have studied some midi files, ( rappers delight bassline, or should we say good times bassline :P )

but I refuse to copy paste midi files in general too.

I have created everything in the piano roll.

Like this one.

Ice Cube - Gangsterrap made me do it.
https://soundcloud.com/user586365033/hiphop

Another example of what I am trying to do:
I got some feedback/ critics :) on that bassline.

https://soundcloud.com/user586365033/rappers-jam-on-it

I have not uploaded it yet, but I have redone the rappers delight bassline from sheetmusic. I suck at reading sheet music, but I do understand it. So it usual takes me two minutes per note to get it in LMMS, but I can do it.
Especially with most music I like, the sheetmusic is usual far from simple.
( rests and dots that make the note 1.5 times longer, tied notes and so on )

I cannot read guitar tabs, nor do I understand how to play a guitar.
Its voodoo magic to me already, if a guitar player only does cdefghab


I do not have to worry about copy right, because when I cover something, I always tell what the original is, and or who wrote it.

I call it a mix, because there are multiple tracks in it, but its not really a mix. Its a few midi recreations of hip hop tracks stitched together.

Because this forum is about music, I like to add something I have noticed.
Dre Dre and Ice Cube are far more easy to cover then rappers delight and jam on it, were a TR808 is used.
Could it be :wink: because the first two made their music in a daw ?

Just for info the rappers delight bass line is not a sample, the group, the sugar hill gang, asked their bass player to play the good times bassline.
They got sewed for it anyway, but are now friend again.
( Good times - Chic with the sugerhill gang rapping their hit over the good times break)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfOwIc2aI7M

Google Nile Rodgers and Bernard Edwards, if you want to know who those two awesome guitar players are.

About the link:
lmao at not my language. You said that to somebody from Amsterdam. :wink:

Its funny though, those kids singing with a hard core house ? beat.
But I do not want to use samples.

Gps
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Re: Can this be done in a daw ?

Postby Gps » Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:56 pm

I just listened to what you uploaded.

I am tempted lol, that would be allot easier then what I am trying to do. Trying to make lmms (midi) recreations.

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sysrqer
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Re: Can this be done in a daw ?

Postby sysrqer » Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:01 pm

It might be possible to get something vaguely similar with synthesis but I think it would be very difficult and probably not quite right. Perhaps some kind of organ layered with something else might get you somewhere near. I would just suggest finding some funk samples but I'm not sure you'd get much closer to be honest. There are some free sample sites around though, it might be your best bet.

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Re: Can this be done in a daw ?

Postby Gps » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:08 pm

Thank you, that was not the answer I was hoping for, but it was what I was expecting.

I had downloaded as I said the rappers delight midi file, and that shows the problem too. :(
Not the bassline so much, but some other guitar part. They did a good job, but that part is not really like the original played on a guitar.

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Re: Can this be done in a daw ?

Postby Gps » Fri Sep 01, 2017 1:44 am

I think that hard core track is funny, but I am not a hardcore fan.
It sounds good though, it definitely fits hardcore.

If were talking house, my favourite is this one. ( totally not hardcore) Yo want this party starting right ?
With this track I also made the mistake of thinking, how hard can it be in lmms ? Should be easy.
The biggest problem I have , my cover is totally dead and has no swing, were the original, makes it hard for me to sit still.
Kraze - The Party
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxQQ04kN6M4

Who knows, I am still learning allot , and might finish that one, some day.

About Kurtis blow.

I hooked up my keystation mini 32, and tried to keep up with the guitar player, lmms at 122bpm.
That was not easy but I ended up with an interesting pattern.

Image

I cant really play piano nor keyboard, but my sense of timing / rhythm is rather good.

After recording I had only one row, but made it into a chord in LMMS. ( and fixed some timing mistake )
The different velocity is also manual adjusted.

I do not know if its the zynaddsubfx guitar sound, but this sound much better then I expected.
I think its the reverb doing this.

I know I can never really get it right, but for now I am to stubborn to give up already.
The inspiration for being stubborn comes from two midi file, I downloaded chic - good times and chic - le freak.
Both files imitate a funky guitar sound.

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Re: Can this be done in a daw ?

Postby Gps » Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:36 pm

Youre hardcore tracks sounds good I think.

I learned that the technique the guitar player uses is called strumming.

I might have to move some notes by hand , because lmms does not have a strumming tool like fruity loops.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PImC21_2HyU

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Re: Can this be done in a daw ?

Postby ufug » Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:52 pm

I can't tell you how many hours I spent as a teenager trying to get the bass line on "Good Times". Bernard Edwards was a genius. Check out the Chic album "Live at the Budokan" if you like that stuff, it's an outstanding record. It was his last show (he died later that night).

You are a brave man attempting it this material with a piano roll, my hat is off to you. Good luck! :)

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Re: Can this be done in a daw ?

Postby Lyberta » Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:28 am

Gps wrote:I do not have to worry about copy right, because when I cover something, I always tell what the original is, and or who wrote it.


That doesn't mean you have the right to make a derivative work of a proprietary composition. You are only in the safe territory if you use only very tiny amount and that would be fair use. But there was a court case regarding someone who only sampled a single chord.

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Re: Can this be done in a daw ?

Postby Gps » Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:54 am

ufug wrote:I can't tell you how many hours I spent as a teenager trying to get the bass line on "Good Times". Bernard Edwards was a genius. Check out the Chic album "Live at the Budokan" if you like that stuff, it's an outstanding record. It was his last show (he died later that night).

You are a brave man attempting it this material with a piano roll, my hat is off to you. Good luck! :)


I am happy at least some people know how damn hard it is, even with the sheet music, and a midi file.
Although I understand sheet music, I often get confused, when I put the notes into lmms, and then it helps me, to take a look at a midi file.
Not for the notes, but for the spacing of the notes.

Ones did, Biscaya - James Last from sheet music. I picked that piece because I liked it, and I could find the sheet music.
Looking back, that piece of music is one of the worst songs to pick, when you like me are starting to learn music, and sheet music.

( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCCV2vTrUKc Mine: https://soundcloud.com/user586365033/biscaya )

Nile Rodgers and Bernard Edwards are legends to me. They wrote and helped with so many hits.
While typing this, listening to this.
Nile Rodgers Nothsea Jazz festival, sadly without Bernard Edwards.

Nile does mention Bernard Edwards.

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Re: Can this be done in a daw ?

Postby Gps » Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:05 pm

Lyberta wrote:
Gps wrote:I do not have to worry about copy right, because when I cover something, I always tell what the original is, and or who wrote it.


That doesn't mean you have the right to make a derivative work of a proprietary composition. You are only in the safe territory if you use only very tiny amount and that would be fair use. But there was a court case regarding someone who only sampled a single chord.


Are you saying its not allowed to make a cover ? This somewhat confuses me, because I do not sample anything.
That would mean that if I play some piece on a piano, I could get sewed ?

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Re: Can this be done in a daw ?

Postby Gps » Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:06 pm

Yes this makes it more clear.

I ones was contacted by somebody on soundcloud.
He claimed he wanted to promote my popcorn song.

I did not respond for two reasons, the most important one, I did not write popcorn, nor do I wanna pretend I did, i did however make a cover.

If I am gonna make money with music, it will be something I made, not something I covered. :)
Written by Gershon Kingsley.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYTu__hhMws

Probably the first synthesizer hit, 1969. In the 70 ties, a cover, was a huge hit in europe.

My cover.
https://soundcloud.com/user586365033/popcorn

The number of video's of this tracks, on you tube, with wrong information about who wrote and played it, is almost funny.
One example
( this is not jeam michel jarre, its the M&H band )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXMhKdAwLbs

This how ever is popcorn played by jarre and prob some friends.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP7aNuqp_YU

Although I agree, that the original artist and composers should be paid, if there is money made, this copy right bull shit is totally getting out of hand.

Back to Curtis blow, after listening allot and watching a guitar player play it, I might be better off giving up before I go insane :P
I am looking for a (guitar) strumming vst though.
I am starting to understand were the rhythm comes from.

its in the up and down strokes, ( and some magic with the other hand )
Its not up down up down up down, there is a syncpation ? in the up and down strokes. That is making the funk. together with the chords and the muting of strings.
Don't know how to describe it other wise.

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Re: Can this be done in a daw ?

Postby Lyberta » Sun Sep 03, 2017 12:41 pm

Gps wrote:Are you saying its not allowed to make a cover ? This somewhat confuses me, because I do not sample anything.
That would mean that if I play some piece on a piano, I could get sewed ?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cover_ver ... yright_law

The law is different in different countries.

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Re: Can this be done in a daw ?

Postby Gps » Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:49 pm

I am a bit stuck

I downloaded ample guitar lite. ( the lite one is free )

At 0.48, why I want to try this this vst.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kugVy24IIc

I downloaded the 32 bit version, run the installer, and installed it. And that's were my problem starts.

Wine seems to have installed it just fine, but how the hell, do I get from Vestige ( in lmms) to that .dll file, that is some were in wine ? :?
I saw the installer install stuf into c:\ program files. But were is C:\ on my Linux ? :?


I already know from an LMMS user on windows, that the vst seems to work in lmms.

Download link:
http://www.vst4free.com/index.php?plug-ins=Guitar/Bass

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Re: Can this be done in a daw ?

Postby sysrqer » Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:04 pm

Gps wrote:Wine seems to have installed it just fine, but how the hell, do I get from Vestige ( in lmms) to that .dll file, that is some were in wine ? :?
I saw the installer install stuf into c:\ program files. But were is C:\ on my Linux ? :?

Usually ~/.wine/drive_c/


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