Getting a big deep kick drum sound

[DukeOfHuntingdon]

I'm mixing a song (for learning, not mine, not for pay). I've found that the recorded kick drum sound is not as big or deep as that of reference tracks. I tried to EQ the kick, boosting around 60Hz up to 10dB, parallel compression, and serial compression. I tried using pitch shifters, but they have made the drum sound like the head is too loose. The pattern is pretty complex, so I think it would take a long time for me to program a midi drum, and I'm not sure that I could find a sample to replicate the drum. I may be missing something. Any suggestions?

I'm running Ardour 6.9 in Ubuntu Studio.

[sysrqer]

You could use a gate and sine wave at 40-60hz. Set up a new track with a sine wave on it and put on a gate which has a sidechain input, feed the kick to the gate's sidechain and set the attack/release as needed. This should open the gate when the kick plays so the sine will come through at the same time.

Careful with compression on the kick because sometimes it can take some of the low end away.

You could also think about it in the reverse way, if lower some of the mid/high end on it then the lower frequencies will be relatively louder.

You could use a sidechain from the kick to the bass and/or other instruments with low end to make the kick clearer, it's possible it is being masked by competing frequencies. Depending on the style this can be subtle, like 1db or so of reduction. Or rather than using sidechain on the volume you could use it on a low shelf eq so the bass end gets ducked slightly, this is more transparent but might not be easy to do (I don't know of any native linux dynamic eqs).

Another option is to use a pultec-style EQ. Applied Computer Music has two, the ACM-2A and ACM-2SA. I'm not really sure what the difference is between them but both should work.

[LAM]

Another alternative could be using a trigger like LSP Trigger.

Here's a video explaining how to use this set of plugins:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkCHORwcZcU

[folderol]

I've found an overdrive effect does the job very well. It compresses the higher frequencies without killing the punch.

[DukeOfHuntingdon]

Thank you all very much. I've tried the sine wave and gate, as well as the LSP trigger. (I just read about overdrive - that's next to try). Both of these worked well. I'll check out overdrive. I'm sure one of these, or a combination of them, will give me exactly what I'm looking (listening?) for.

[tseaver]

Another trick for an already-recorded single bass track is to duplicate the track, with complementary low- and high-pass filters on the duplicates. You can then, for instance, add saturation / distortion to the one which keeps the higher frequencies (making them "poke out"), while selectively boosting the track which retains the lower ones without stepping on guitars / keys / male vocals.

[erlkönig]

Next trick: Reamp the track and use a subkick.
https://www.instructables.com/DIY-Subkick/
...you will find ready to use subkicks on various purchase-platforms.

Send only the kicktrack via a little PA, partybox or something like that (no requirements on quality on it, you can almost use any loudspeaker - you just need a certain volume) and place the subkick a few cm away from the basspeaker, so that the change in airpressure drives the subkick. Usually this brings great low ends.

[tavasti]

Next trick: Reamp the track and use a subkick.
https://www.instructables.com/DIY-Subkick/
...you will find ready to use subkicks on various purchase-platforms.

Send only the kicktrack via a little PA, partybox or something like that (no requirements on quality on it, you can almost use any loudspeaker - you just need a certain volume) and place the subkick a few cm away from the basspeaker, so that the change in airpressure drives the subkick. Usually this brings great low ends.

Ok, this explains a lot. I have seen this plugin and did not understand what it is modelling: https://www.wavesfactory.com/free-audio-plugins/sk10/

(Haven't tested if that plugin works in linux)

[novalix]

Hi,

apart of some trickery, which might be useful (or not) in some situations, you would have to make sure that you really *hear* what is going on in this particular frequency range.

When you say that a 10db boost of 60Hz doesn't make your Kick "big", it seems that your listening environment does not transport those frequencies very well and/or your room situation is not good.

Be aware of the fact that most listening environements (be it headphones or nearfields) do not transport as much energy in this spectrum as one might think. What you really hear on those systems is the part of the signal that lies above this range and the whole listening expirience is often triggered by an "acoustic anchor" in the higher mids (the *clicky* part).

On the practical side: Try Calf Bass Enhancer.

[sunrat]

I love the Harrison XT-DC Drum Character plugin for this and most drum tweaking. You need to use Mixbus and fork out moolah for it though.

[erlkönig]

When you say that a 10db boost of 60Hz doesn't make your Kick "big", it seems that your listening environment does not transport those frequencies very well and/or your room situation is not good.

Absolutely right. What's also important, is to do highpassing, whenever possible. Long waves (< ca. 200Hz) tend to sum up in the low ends, without being clearly recognized.

[DukeOfHuntingdon]

I know that my listening environment is not ideal. However, I can hear the sound that I want when I listen to the reference tracks. In addition, the spectrum analyzer of the kick shows that there is less signal at 60 Hz than at 110-120Hz; on other kick drums the peak in the spectrum analyzer tends to be around 60-70Hz. So the sound just isn't there. I was thinking that, the reason I couldn't really hear it was because it wasn't there to great extent in the first place. I probably should have included this information when I first asked my question.

Having said that, I will check to frequency response of my room to get a better idea of what I am missing. Thanks for pointing that out.

[novalix]

It is possible that there is to much energy in the 100-300Hz area in a specific signal. That would then sit "in front" of the subs.
In any case the phrase "context matters" applies. So check out for other sources like bass and the like which can cover the low end energy of the bassdrum.

[mike@overtonedsp]

Get one of these https://www.acmt.co.uk/products/downloa ... index.html Set the low frequency to 30 or 60Hz, Set the LF Boost to get the required bass boost, then increase the LF Atten control to 'tighten up' the bass / kick sound as required. If you want to enhance the 'click' on a kick drum, use the mid boost control, and if necessary tame the top end with the HF Attenuate.

[DukeOfHuntingdon]

Thanks for all the great help! I've been testing the suggestions, and getting closer to the sound I want. I'll test the ACM-2SA ASAP.