Live Midi - hardware for low latency aka small buffer size

Discuss your workplace, instruments, amps, and any other gear.

Moderators: MattKingUSA, khz

Post Reply
bluepen
Established Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:00 am

Live Midi - hardware for low latency aka small buffer size

Post by bluepen »

Hey all

I play Midi keyboards in a band and it seems like to be an advantage to me if I could achieve rather low latencies (go down to small buffer sizes).

So far I am using a ThinkPad T430. It does a good job after all but it is almost 8 years old now.
I don't have an audio interface yet. Would you say having one would give me any performance boost?

I am also considering getting a new laptop. Am I right to assume that any somewhat better device I could get nowadays would give me a significantly better performance?
What I like about my ThinkPad is that it seems to be built a little more robust than the average device one could get so that I don't fear it will break immediately ;) So that would be something for me to take into account when getting something new.
I could imagine spending around 2k Euros for a new laptop.

But I am not in a hurry with this. Would just appreciate any ideas that could improve my setup for performing live with the band and getting a bit of an overview what kind of stuff is around now.

Thanks a lot!
j_e_f_f_g
Established Member
Posts: 2032
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:48 pm
Been thanked: 357 times

Re: Live Midi - hardware for low latency aka small buffer size

Post by j_e_f_f_g »

As someone who has performed live with a computer for years, I can definintely give you some advice. Don't buy a laptop for live use. Let's face it. Gigging gear is going to be physically stressed. It gets bumped into, squashed, dropped, operated in sunlight on a hot day, dusty, etc. All these things can contribute to failure, and frankly, laptops are notorious for failure due to physical abuse.

Instead buy a rackmount computer (often simply referred to as a "server"), and mount it in a Gator or SKB case. Get a system that is fanless, and has an SSD (solid state drive). It you want something that is going to be as reliable as all your other dedicated music gear, then you may even want to look for something where the CPU and RAM are soldered to the motherboard. (But I've successfully gone years using a system with socket-mounted CPU and RAM. The more important factors are rackmount and fanless.)

Search google for:
fanless rackmount computer

Be careful not to get a system that is too long. Definitely keep to length from front to rear less than 19 inches. Adding the keywords "short depth" can help.

For a monitor, you may want to try a USB (DisplayLink) monitor since it takes only 1 USB cable to attach it to the computer. (Video signal and power go through the USB connection.) That what I use.

Author of BackupBand at https://sourceforge.net/projects/backupband/files/
My fans show their support by mentioning my name in their signature.

bluepen
Established Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:00 am

Re: Live Midi - hardware for low latency aka small buffer size

Post by bluepen »

Interesting!
In the short period of time since I've started eletronic music I've not yet seen something like that, but I can definately imagine that it's more reliable than a laptop.

Since you're using a server I assume that you're connecting an audio interface to it, too. Which one would that be?

Do you connect a mouse and/or keyboard to the server or do you use your monitor also as a touch device, or do you do something completely different?

Thanks!
j_e_f_f_g
Established Member
Posts: 2032
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:48 pm
Been thanked: 357 times

Re: Live Midi - hardware for low latency aka small buffer size

Post by j_e_f_f_g »

bluepen wrote:an audio interface to it, too. Which one would that be?
Focusrite 2x4. It's also mounted in an 4U SKB rackmount case. The case contains my 1U rackmount computer, 2U stereo power amp for the P.A., Focusrite (which is firmly duct-taped to the top of the computer case), and 1U rackmount power bar. The interface, computer, and amp are already connected together inside the rack, including power cables.

The computer runs my own program called BackupBand, which provides me with all the sounds I use for my own keyboard playing (acoustic piano, EPs, strings, sax, brass, synths, electric and acoustic guitars, basses, etc). It also is a realtime auto-arranger which follows my playing and creates drums, bass, and guitar accompaniment in realtime. In effect, it turns my keyboard controller into something like a Yamaha Tyros or PSR, korg PA, and similiar hardware arrangers.

I use a USB (DisplayLink) monitor that also supports touchscreen, thereby eliminating any need for keyboard/mouse. The monitor sits right atop my keyboard controller, so it's inches away from my playing hand -- allowing me to quickly/easily change patches, start/stop play, change beats/styles, set tempo, etc.

I run a USB cable between my keyboard controller and computer, another USB cable between my monitor and computer, and two speaker cables from my amp to P.A. speakers. I also attach an XLR cable from a Shure SM58 microphone to the Focusrite (for singing). I plug the rackmount's power bar into a wall socket, and turn it on. Everything powers up, and I'm ready to go. It literally takes me about 15 mins to carry my equipment into a venue, set it up, and be ready to play.

If you want to check out BackupBand for live gigging, you can get it at:

https://sourceforge.net/projects/backupband/

Author of BackupBand at https://sourceforge.net/projects/backupband/files/
My fans show their support by mentioning my name in their signature.

bluepen
Established Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:00 am

Re: Live Midi - hardware for low latency aka small buffer size

Post by bluepen »

Wow, thanks a lot for your thorough information! :)
User avatar
sunrat
Established Member
Posts: 915
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:08 pm
Has thanked: 151 times
Been thanked: 242 times

Re: Live Midi - hardware for low latency aka small buffer size

Post by sunrat »

j_e_f_f_g wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:40 pmInstead buy a rackmount computer (often simply referred to as a "server"), and mount it in a Gator or SKB case. Get a system that is fanless, and has an SSD (solid state drive).
That's good advice except for the fanless bit. If you can get a computer that runs cool enough without fans, go for it. Unless you're playing really quiet gigs you won't notice the fan noise particularly if you have amps with fans.
As a sound tech with several thousand gigs, if I had a dollar for every time a laptop misbehaved on stage I'd have a lot of dollars. :lol: And no, Macbooks are not more reliable for stage use even though they are quite popular.
Last edited by sunrat on Fri Jan 22, 2021 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
bluepen
Established Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:00 am

Re: Live Midi - hardware for low latency aka small buffer size

Post by bluepen »

We are really quite loud so I guess the fanless thing isn't that relevant for me ;)
j_e_f_f_g
Established Member
Posts: 2032
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:48 pm
Been thanked: 357 times

Re: Live Midi - hardware for low latency aka small buffer size

Post by j_e_f_f_g »

I strenuously disagree about the fans. It's not the noise that matters. It's the fact that moving parts eventually wear out and/or loosen, and fail. There's a reason why you'll find no fans in professional musical instruments. Moving parts are a primary source of failure in equipment that is often physically transported, or subject to physical shock (maybe even vibration from sound waves. Every so many months I have to tighten the screws on my rack because they eventually loosen from all the physical stress). My first gig computer wasn't fanless. The CPU fan was the first thing that failed. (Physical durability is also why most music gear has components soldered to the circuit board, rather than socketed. At one gig, my rack accidentally dropped on the floor, with enough force that I had to open the case and reseat a RAM chip. But it's those fans that I fear most).

Lack of moving parts is also why I never gig with spinning platter drives. It's got to be SSD. The speed of the drive isn't important.

Author of BackupBand at https://sourceforge.net/projects/backupband/files/
My fans show their support by mentioning my name in their signature.

User avatar
sunrat
Established Member
Posts: 915
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:08 pm
Has thanked: 151 times
Been thanked: 242 times

Re: Live Midi - hardware for low latency aka small buffer size

Post by sunrat »

j_e_f_f_g wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 2:05 pm I strenuously disagree about the fans. It's not the noise that matters.
We'll have to agree to disagree. Heat matters a lot. If I had a dollar for every time an Ampeg SVT shut down during a gig from overheating...
Post Reply