building a rudimentary EUB (upright stick bass)

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Veerstryngh Thynner
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building a rudimentary EUB (upright stick bass)

Post by Veerstryngh Thynner »

Greetings all,

Constructing some underground for my small audio home studio, last year, left me with some spare wood. And only the other day it occurred to me that one of those pieces may serve, theoretically, as a "spindle" around which to build a basic electric upright (stick) bass (EUB): a double bass without a sound chamber, in other words.

Chances are, however, that this "spindle" won't survive the enormous forces even a single string exerts. So over the last two or three nights I watched and listed each and every YouTube clip available on the subject - and found some really interesting and convincing examples.

In its simplest form, a stick bass takes the shape of a plank of wood, over the length of which a piece of string is tightened. The "pickup" - in this case - has been made from an old turn table phone cartridge.

Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWYq-vDbqwQ

Another specimen (shown, rather, than played) is a little more sophisticated: consisting of two or three planks. I think this will be the template on which to model my bass.

Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbZqeYXABUg

The plan is to base this instrument on measurements/dimensions/looks of a genuine concert/jazz EUB. Money is a real issue here, though, so I'm aiming for low- or no-cost.

As to amplification: from various YouTube clips, I understand that with some copper wire and a couple of magnets, a pickup can be made. But how exactly wasn't elaborated on. The tutorial below is very much more attractive to me, though, since winding and soldering are not involved:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpjbvSwBUvs

I'm now wondering if anybody out there has any practical experience of building a stick EUB - and is prepared to share this. Things I'd particularly like to hear about,at this stage, are:

- where to find detailed measurements of a real EUB (in metric, preferably) - and of tailpiece, bridge, neck, fingerboard and head in particular;
- fingerboard angle (in relation to tailpiece and bridge) would be of importance, too;
- so far, a contact microphone for each pair of strings (see last YouTube clip) may be workable - in my eyes at least. But since my experience as electrician is zero, I could certainly do with some guidance here: especially as to things like how to converge the wiring into a single jack and how to install a simple volume pot.

And now I'm hoping for some advice, of course. Thanks in advance.

tnob
luster
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Re: building a rudimentary EUB (upright stick bass)

Post by luster »

You are free to design and build at will. If you want what you are building to feel and play like a 'real' upright, it's probably going to be less of a headache to find a used upright for sale. Maybe start with a broken one and build onto it.

You can find piezo elements for use in acoustic pickups on sale for cheap at an electronics wholesaler like Jameco, Mouser, or DigiKey. They are called "Piezo Benders" and look like a brass disk with a slightly raised and smaller round silver area on one side. They are transducers and therefore may be used either as speakers or microphones. You can find them in discarded electronics like televisions, radios, alarm clocks, telephones, etc. They may require a preamp and it's always best to provide some protection against high voltage going into anything you hook them up to because the signal they produce is capable of blowing the input stage of an amp. Bear in mind, these elements are similar to those that are used to produce the large spark to light cigar, cigarette, and BBQ lighters. They will produce a very LARGE voltage if the element is struck sharply. Pay attention to impedence and resonant frequency if you like. See some here: http://www.digikey.com/product-search/e ... 79?k=piezo

Magnetic pickups can be as simple as winding fine enameled 'magnet wire' also called 'motor wire' into a loop and fixing it to a magnet. Or wind around the magnet. Or use two or more magnets. Will it sound as good as a consciously designed and engineered pickup? Depends on what 'sound good' means to you.

There is one trap to be aware of. You may find yourself facing string length limitation if using commonly available brands. But "music wire" commonly called piano wire is available in spools bearing from a few dozen feet to thousands of feet per pound. Bass strings with copper or alloy winding are available individually on a made-to-order basis.
Broomy
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Re: building a rudimentary EUB (upright stick bass)

Post by Broomy »

For building the EUB, you could do also do a google search on electric cello's. They are smaller but they are build the same. Check the musical instruments makers forum (http://www.mimf.com) there you can find some info on (high-end) EUB's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4R2tCQg1ug

As to stringlength, I would use a common stringlength and buy commonly available strings. You can make your own strings, but then you have to buy some coils of the above mentioned music wire and make a set up to wrap a string around a core.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_MVOZnhLVc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbizZatTilU

To amplify you can use the piezo elements, or buy under saddle piezo pickups for acoustic guitar from e-bay or aliexpress.com.
You can build a single loop pickup from a electric wire and a current transformer, I have build several and they work great.
Last you can use your strings as a moving coil pick up
Demo with prototype single loop pickup: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A1NkiwltbI
Another demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2WRQ8oFxQI
Background info on moving coil pick up: http://music-electronics-forum.com/t14952/
Demo of moving coil pick up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj5knLzVSns

Good luck and I'm looking forward to see your project develop!
The Quintar Project:
- Popularizing an all fifths tuning for guitarlike instruments
- Youtube: Playing and Building
- Files: Sourceforge
Veerstryngh Thynner
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Re: building a rudimentary EUB (upright stick bass)

Post by Veerstryngh Thynner »

Hi Broomy & Luster

Thank you so much for your helpful information and the many links provided. I'm especially pleased with the one to the musical instruments makers forum: I wasn't yet aware of the existence of such a place.

Incidentally: I'm not after a 'high-end' EUB: just can't spare the money, first of all - not even for a broken secondhand. But marveling at what some YouTubers achieve with two planks screwed together and a piece of string - in terms of sound quality, rather, than design - a EUB of some sort suddenly seems to be within my reach as well.

The plan now is to emulate an EUB - i.e. employing a simple design like in the link below

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbZqeYXABUg

yet with the difference that to my instrument the exact dimensions of a real EUB should be applied. This is the main reason why I asked, in my opening post, for information on size and measurements of a professional EUB. And another that, with some luck, chances are that adding tailpiece, bridge and fingerboard of the genuine article to my scrap version might not be altogether impossible.

However, I don't see me making strings myself anytime soon. Piano string might work though - thanks very much for the suggestion. Never thought of that.

tnob
Broomy
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Re: building a rudimentary EUB (upright stick bass)

Post by Broomy »

Tnob,

You can achieve alot with discarded materials, so go for it!
Regarding the right measurements: There ain't such a thing. Everything between 30" up to 42" stringlength will do for a EUB, but that gives a lot of room to move.

For a string you can also use a nylon weedwacker string, available in every DIY-store.

Check also for "cigarboxguitars", these are as rule low-budget and there are a lot of creative designs around.

Broomy
The Quintar Project:
- Popularizing an all fifths tuning for guitarlike instruments
- Youtube: Playing and Building
- Files: Sourceforge
Veerstryngh Thynner
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Re: building a rudimentary EUB (upright stick bass)

Post by Veerstryngh Thynner »

Hi Broomy,

What's weedwacker string? Don't have a clue.

This may be down to semantic differences: I'm living in England and 'weedwacker' sounds pretty much American to me.

tnob
Broomy
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Re: building a rudimentary EUB (upright stick bass)

Post by Broomy »

The Quintar Project:
- Popularizing an all fifths tuning for guitarlike instruments
- Youtube: Playing and Building
- Files: Sourceforge
Veerstryngh Thynner
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Re: building a rudimentary EUB (upright stick bass)

Post by Veerstryngh Thynner »

Thanks Broomy,

Learned something new today.

As to string length: (quote) Everything between 30" up to 42" string length will do for a EUB, but that gives a lot of room to move (unquote).

Can you expand a little on this please? If max string length for a DIY EUB is 42'', to my understanding, where comes the lot of room to move from?

tnob
Broomy
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Re: building a rudimentary EUB (upright stick bass)

Post by Broomy »

I meant that you have a wide range of stringlenghts where you can choose of.

Did you already started building?
The Quintar Project:
- Popularizing an all fifths tuning for guitarlike instruments
- Youtube: Playing and Building
- Files: Sourceforge
Veerstryngh Thynner
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Re: building a rudimentary EUB (upright stick bass)

Post by Veerstryngh Thynner »

Hi Broomy,

I haven't started building yet, but hope to be able to begin soon. Sometime in the next fortnight, I expect.

Basic tools are available (hacksaw, screwdrivers, etc), but I still need clamps (to hold the fingerboard in place). For some precision machine sawing, I hope to enlist some assistance of a 'handyman' a little further down the road. And a visit to the local classical musical instrument builders (for a discarded fingerboard, bridge and tailpiece) is also on the cards.

My initial thought was to use a steel rod with wooden bits attached (neck & head in one piece, plus some kind of support for bridge and tailpiece). But this will bring complications I wouldn't know how to solve. I'm now inclined to go for some 2 feet of roundwood sturdy enough to withstand the force of four strings.

Ready money is a bit of an issue here, though - so building my EUB may become a bit-by-bit operation. Let's see first how far I'll get with the woodwork.

Once more, many thanks for your interest and advice.

tnob
Broomy
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Re: building a rudimentary EUB (upright stick bass)

Post by Broomy »

tnob,

I would love to see your design.
Did to draw by hand or using a cad-program.
I'm using http://www.librecad.org and I love it!

" I'm now inclined to go for some 2 feet of roundwood sturdy enough to withstand the force of four strings."
It's common to use rectangular pieces of wood and shape them round with a rasp.

You can check out http://www.monsterbass.nl/ ,there's some good info on making instruments as a hobby / with common tools.
The Quintar Project:
- Popularizing an all fifths tuning for guitarlike instruments
- Youtube: Playing and Building
- Files: Sourceforge
Veerstryngh Thynner
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Re: building a rudimentary EUB (upright stick bass)

Post by Veerstryngh Thynner »

Broomy wrote:
" I'm now inclined to go for some 2 feet of roundwood sturdy enough to withstand the force of four strings."

It's common to use rectangular pieces of wood and shape them round with a rasp.
Hi Broomy,

2 ft (about 60 cm, at my guess) should have been 6 feet, actually. And was to become, eventually, 73 inches (1.85m) in total.

The design sketches I made on ordinary blank paper and with ordinary pencil. Later, a felt writer plus black ink were used to accentuate lines and side notes.

I think roundwood might be better, in this case. Making flat/square/rectangular planks round (or semicircular, lengthwise) seems a lot more bothersome to me than leaving round what's already naturally round (a tree branch, for instance) and flattening where necessary. Ergo, carving my bass from a single piece of roundwood will be akin to cutting out a decorated table leg (equally with bulges, squares, rounds, and flats - only a little larger). The crux is namely that headstock, neck and (solid) body are to come in one piece.

Actually, there's a clip on YouTube from some bloke in The Hague who made a terrific upright bass from two different table legs, both saved from someone else's (i.e. two different persons') rubbish. Sadly, this is a bit short on background info: a little on what, but nothing at all on how. And the picture quality is abominable.

I should have it listed somewhere, so when I find it back I'll put another posting in.

tnob
UriSh
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Re: building a rudimentary EUB (upright stick bass)

Post by UriSh »

Hi tnob,

It's my first time writing in this forum, but reading your thread I had to add some.

I've been wanting to build an eub for some time now, and have some links to share:

First, liutaiomotolla.com have some nice plans of experimental basses, and between them is an eub, complete with instructions on how to create a unique under the saddle piezo pickup, while having a height adjustable bridge, and a shallow neck to body angle.

Next, there's a page on a home made eub at http://www.eclecticbass.com/eurb.html dealing with how he made his own, before there was much of an internet.

The MIMF that was mentioned here is another great resource.

As a former cabinetmaker, I would advise against working with round wood, as it is a bit of a pain to clamp and hold down during work, and you would probably still need to change the radius of both the fingerboard and the neck to be both comfortable and playable.

Anyway, all the best, waiting to see how it goes.

Uri
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