Please share your gnu/linux music production setup

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milo
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Re: Please share your gnu/linux music production setup

Postby milo » Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:45 pm

WforWoollyMammoth wrote:The reverbs available for Linux aren't that great though and I've used WINE for the reverbs so far =/


Have you tried Dragonfly Reverb?

Here is a demo and review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnriLuJXTW0

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Re: Please share your gnu/linux music production setup

Postby WforWoollyMammoth » Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:23 pm

Openmastering wrote:Nice setup @WforWoollyMammoth

I also have a Babyface Pro (among other RME soundcards) and I'm quite happy with it. Software monitoring works fine for me if I ever need to overdub.

I don't agree with you about free audio software being subpar. Setting up the a-compressor from ardour is as easy as setting up my hardware compressors. Calf plugins give you enough visuals. LSP plugins enough flexibility if you need to ask yourself if you need a linear phase filter or not. I use impulse response for my reverbs and it's not lacking anything. I can't say about algorithmic reverbs as I hardly use them. Except some plates for vocals but they never sound "real" anyway.

I bought all the DAWs and plugins you listed, (except Presswerk which is a dream compressor, I agree) and I went back to using exclusively free software (and diy hardware) for mastering. It's enough to get the job done.

Sorry if I come aggressive, it's definitely not meant this way. There are good reasons to use commercial softwares, I just went the route from free software because it's free(beer) to commercial software because I wanted to support the credibility of Linux as an audio platform, and back to free software because they are good enough to get a pro job done while being ethically on par with my beliefs.


Hi,

thank you for the compliment you that you start your reply with it... and also the criticism!

I do not consider the "free as speech" / "free as beer" software available for Linux "subpar" in the sense that a lot of it wouldn't be good. For example, my favourite delay plugin is still SWH stero delay and my favourite phase is Calf Phaser. I just personally consider especially compression and reverb to be the the type of effects that should be easy to set up and the result should generate the "this sounds like a record" type of impression with minimal amount of tweaking. In that regard, I find the commercial plugins to do that job in most cases well with the least amount of hassle (U-he Presswerk is a great example of this, as it just sounds good with most settings).

IRs are an option for reverb, of course. Personally, I just don't like how they force you to keep trying out different files for different delay lengths and so on. The workflow with algorithmic reverbs is what I prefer. In general, I like reverbs quite low in the mix and I'm not one looking for the most "hifi" ones in that regard, but I am really picky about how they work in a mix. I like the way they push the mix "further away from the listener", even if in general I do like rather dry mixes. Little amounts of tweaking make a lot of difference and that's why I'm picky with reverbs. I like Valhalla Room and Fabfilter Pro-R the most, as far as plugin reverbs are considered, and wish native Linux versions were available.

I do not want to derail this thread too much. This thread is about people telling about their setups. Looking forward to you challenging my views on other threads in any case. I'm currently really interested in reverbs (I've done a lot of A/B'ing and reading on algorithms), so maybe you'd like to write replies to some of my comments on other threads.

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Re: Please share your gnu/linux music production setup

Postby WforWoollyMammoth » Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:51 pm

milo wrote:
WforWoollyMammoth wrote:The reverbs available for Linux aren't that great though and I've used WINE for the reverbs so far =/


Have you tried Dragonfly Reverb?

Here is a demo and review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnriLuJXTW0


Yes, I have. I sort of like it, but I should still subject it to more testing.

However, I'm under the impression that the "hall" version of it is just zita reverb with a different early reflections algo? Correct if I'm wrong with that description.

I've always really liked the zita reverb (I use it as a "monitoring reverb" for keyboards and DI guitars), but it's not something I'd recommend as the "main reverb" in the typical "send" approach for mixes. It's a bit thin sounding in that context. I'm not sure if the early reflections model that's used for DR instead is that much of an improvement in that regard. Again, please correct me if I'm spreading misinformation here.

Just like there are "glue compressors", there are "glue reverbs". The "feedback delay network" type of reverbs do not accomplish that as well as the products that employ a bit more sophisticated approach for it. They can sound really, really nice solo'ed, but in a full mix the results tend to be a bit flat to my ears.

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Re: Please share your gnu/linux music production setup

Postby Michael Willis » Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:46 am

WforWoollyMammoth wrote:However, I'm under the impression that the "hall" version of it is just zita reverb with a different early reflections algo? Correct if I'm wrong with that description.

Dragonfly Hall can be considered a descendant of Zita with a few additional features that make quite a difference:

* The chorus parameters (mod, spin, and wander) give an effect of multiple reverb tails moving around.
* The crossover and multiplier dials give you the capability of defining three different frequency bands that have different decay times.
* Like you mentioned, it includes an implementation of Moorer's early reflection model, and you can select a percentage of the early reflections to feed into the late reverb. As far as I'm aware, Zita has no early reflection algorithm at all.

Depending on what you mean by "thin sounding", you can trying lengthening out the decay time of the low frequencies (dial up the Low Mult, and experiment with Low Cross), or you can try exaggerating the stereo width a bit higher than 100%.

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Re: Please share your gnu/linux music production setup

Postby WforWoollyMammoth » Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:15 pm

Michael Willis wrote:
WforWoollyMammoth wrote:However, I'm under the impression that the "hall" version of it is just zita reverb with a different early reflections algo? Correct if I'm wrong with that description.

Dragonfly Hall can be considered a descendant of Zita with a few additional features that make quite a difference:

* The chorus parameters (mod, spin, and wander) give an effect of multiple reverb tails moving around.
* The crossover and multiplier dials give you the capability of defining three different frequency bands that have different decay times.
* Like you mentioned, it includes an implementation of Moorer's early reflection model, and you can select a percentage of the early reflections to feed into the late reverb. As far as I'm aware, Zita has no early reflection algorithm at all.

Depending on what you mean by "thin sounding", you can trying lengthening out the decay time of the low frequencies (dial up the Low Mult, and experiment with Low Cross), or you can try exaggerating the stereo width a bit higher than 100%.


Thank you for your comments. I like the amount of control your plugin offers compared to other free-as-in-beer / free-as-in-speech Linux reverbs.

Zita-reverb is thin-sounding to my ears, but it's my favourite reverb available for Linux in any case. The LV2 version is constantly "on" in my JACK setup for my keyboards and DI'd guitar and provides all the reverb I need when jamming alone. It's just not something I'd use as a send reverb that combines different elements of a mix. It tends to sound thin, because it sounds the best with the brighter tones to me. Your modifications seem to allow getting darker reverb tones in a more convenient manner.

On the early reflections:

On the original author's site is stated: "the early reflections are different for the L and R inputs, but do not correspond to any real room. They have been tuned to match left and right sources to some extent."

https://kokkinizita.linuxaudio.org/linu ... guide.html), zita-rev1

I've also looked at the block diagram: https://www.dsprelated.com/josimages_ne ... img897.png

I just always assumed the ERs are "the second block".

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Re: Please share your gnu/linux music production setup

Postby Michael Willis » Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:29 pm

WforWoollyMammoth wrote:On the early reflections:

On the original author's site is stated: "the early reflections are different for the L and R inputs, but do not correspond to any real room. They have been tuned to match left and right sources to some extent."

https://kokkinizita.linuxaudio.org/linu ... guide.html), zita-rev1

I've also looked at the block diagram: https://www.dsprelated.com/josimages_ne ... img897.png

I just always assumed the ERs are "the second block".

Heh, you're right. For more context, Dragonfly Hall Reverb is mostly just Hibiki reverb in a nicer plugin (well, that's a bit oversimplified, but good enough for this conversation). Hibiki uses a modified Zita as the late reflection algorithm.


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