Nvidia why they don't release 3D driver source

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slowpick
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Re: Nvidia why they don't release 3D driver source

Postby slowpick » Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:27 pm

SR wrote:
Heavy Duty wrote:
Oh, please. He isn't trolling, he merely disagrees with the idea that a company is under an obligation to share their intellectual property.

(And that's coming from somebody he disagrees with!)


Merely disagreeing and being insulting are completely different things. His metaphors are childish at best and serve no purpose other than to belittle any other point of few (or do you agree that open source is equivalent to letting the homeless borrow your car?)

It is not open source I have an issue with. It is demanding that others give up source code
they work for, and own, while not applying the same standard, to what THEY work for, and own.

It is hypocritical to live that two-faced lifestyle, and criminal to steal commercial media releases.
Perhaps having your sacred cow read my posts, has not served you well. I have never
spoken against open source, or the generous and talented coders who share it on such
a regular basis. Read, think, post, in that order.

SR
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Re: Nvidia why they don't release 3D driver source

Postby SR » Sat Jun 16, 2012 12:15 pm

slowpick wrote:It is hypocritical to live that two-faced lifestyle, and criminal to steal commercial media releases.
Perhaps having your sacred cow read my posts, has not served you well. I have never
spoken against open source, or the generous and talented coders who share it on such
a regular basis. Read, think, post, in that order.


And I'm sure somewhere in the insults there has been a point. While we're giving out advice let's read, think and post something that can contribute to a discussion without belittling anyone else.

I am not disagreeing with everything you've said. I'm sure there's a good reason why Nvidia doesn't provide their source code and I posted what I believe it might be (however the post was removed due to it being in response to an earlier, insulting one) but my reasons didn't include the belief that the Nvidia source includes their bank account numbers or the codes to their home alarm systems. So don't insinuate that I'm a zealot who believes that everything must be shared.

And as far as I'm concerned the whole idea of "stealing" commercial media is OT to the discussion so my sacred cow will withhold its opinion on that here.

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raboof
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Re: Nvidia why they don't release 3D driver source

Postby raboof » Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:55 pm

slowpick wrote:It is not open source I have an issue with. It is demanding that others give up source code they work for, and own, while not applying the same standard, to what THEY work for, and own.


Still, nobody is 'demanding' anything, we're just asking.

Your comparison might be reasonable here if NVIDIA were a company that's in the business of creating graphics card drivers. It's not: it's in the business of creating graphics cards, including drivers.

There's a difference: asking for the source code, we're not asking NVIDIA to lose customers: we *are* its (potential) customers, and we're telling them how they can make us (their customers) happier. We'd still be buying their graphics cards (more of them in fact!), and with that, paying for driver development.

We're not asking them to 'give up' anything in the sense that we'd get something for free that we'd otherwise have to pay them for.

slowpick wrote:Read, think, post, in that order.


Slowpick, these kinds of comments *are* insulting, and if you don't adjust your tone i'm close to doing it for you.

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Re: Nvidia why they don't release 3D driver source

Postby slowpick » Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:31 pm

People are asking a business to modify their successful business plan, to suit THEM.
Once it has been repeatedly asked, and repeatedly turned down, it is not
helping anyone. To ask the 10th and 20th and 30th times, means
you won' stop asking, until you get your way, thus it IS a demand.

When people WRONGLY state my position about source code,
because their fanaticism has lurched beyond accurately comprehending and
implementing the english language, how better to admonish them, than simply

read, think, post. I am (edit:) being mis-represented.

slowpick
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Re: Nvidia why they don't release 3D driver source

Postby slowpick » Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:55 pm

raboof wrote:
slowpick wrote:Read, think, post, in that order.


Slowpick, these kinds of comments *are* insulting, and if you don't adjust your tone i'm close to doing it for you.


This is the 'backstage' forum. Seriously, check out the similar forums in
other venues, where 'Read, think, post, in that order', would not
even be a blip on the radar.

Simply remove this forum, if open discussion is too threatening to the religion.

slowpick
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Re: Nvidia why they don't release 3D driver source

Postby slowpick » Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:00 pm

SR wrote:And as far as I'm concerned the whole idea of "stealing" commercial media is OT to the discussion so my sacred cow will withhold its opinion on that here.


If I were nVidia, knowing the answer to such questions, would be part
of any discussion involving who is given what.

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Re: Nvidia why they don't release 3D driver source

Postby SR » Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:40 pm

Torvalds on Nvidia: "Nvidia has been the single worst company we've ever dealt with"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MShbP3Op ... ed#t=2965s

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Re: Nvidia why they don't release 3D driver source

Postby Capoeira » Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:25 pm

SR wrote:Torvalds on Nvidia: "Nvidia has been the single worst company we've ever dealt with"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MShbP3Op ... ed#t=2965s



you forgot to quote: "So Nvidia......FUCK YOU" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

SR
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Re: Nvidia why they don't release 3D driver source

Postby SR » Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:42 pm

Capoeira wrote:
SR wrote:Torvalds on Nvidia: "Nvidia has been the single worst company we've ever dealt with"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MShbP3Op ... ed#t=2965s



you forgot to quote: "So Nvidia......FUCK YOU" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Hopefully the subtle insult won't be remembered by the heads of successful businesses causing the Linux community to lose further credibility.

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Re: Nvidia why they don't release 3D driver source

Postby warkus » Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:40 am

slowpick wrote:People are asking a business to modify their successful business plan, to suit THEM.


Ok i'm really soory that you simply don't understand the difference between what is ethical and what is not. Proprietary software is unethical, that is the whole point. Big business only see $$ and don't care for doing something because it will help the world be a better place. Yes I will point this out in a provocative way because I stand up for what I believe in and if asking questions is all I can do then I will.
I hope you are intelligent enough to understand the OP, otherwise I have nothing more to say to you, please take some time to visit gnu.org

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Re: Nvidia why they don't release 3D driver source

Postby raboof » Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:46 pm

warkus wrote:Ok i'm really soory that you simply don't understand the difference between what is ethical and what is not. Proprietary software is unethical, that is the whole point.


The stance that 'proprietary software is unethical' is not a universally accepted one, and claiming slowpick "doesn't understand the difference between what is ethical and what is not" because he doesn't subscribe to that idea is ridiculous.

I, for one, also disagree proprietary software is 'unethical' per se.

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Re: Nvidia why they don't release 3D driver source

Postby i2productions » Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:53 pm

warkus wrote: Proprietary software is unethical, that is the whole point.


I beg to differ. Let's take the example of my only 2 pieces of windows software I run under WINE, Reason 5.0 and Amplitube 2&3. For a company to spend thousands(if not 10's of thousands) of man hours developing world class software, they absolutely have the right to deny a small customer base access to their source code! They've worked hard and they deserve to reap the rewards!

However in Nvdia's case where I don't see any disadvantage to them, the situation is perplexing. I can understand them not wanting to devote their developers for a computer base that's the 1% of users. I can't understand not releasing the code, since it's not like you can use it without buying/having their hardware! It's only a win win for them. But as for ethics, it is their hard work, and if they want to withold it, so be it(I'm not impressed, but hey it's theirs to do with as they please!)

slowpick wrote:Once it has been repeatedly asked, and repeatedly turned down, it is not
helping anyone. To ask the 10th and 20th and 30th times, means
you won' stop asking, until you get your way, thus it IS a demand.


In many cases repeated badgering of companies by the masses is what gets things done. If you write 1 email a week, and you convince a friend to write 1 email a week, and they ask 1 friend to write 1 email a week...etc, this IS how you get results! The more customer support they see out there, the more likely they are to try and capture that customer base.

P.S.....Oh yeah...NVidia FUCK YOU!

brummer

Re: Nvidia why they don't release 3D driver source

Postby brummer » Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:40 am

Here is a little example were OpenSource Drivers take a rule in the Business, and lately decide who the deal make.

NVIDIA has lost an order of at least ten million graphics cards because their GeForce/Quadro driver is closed-source.

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=n ... px=MTEyNTE

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Re: Nvidia why they don't release 3D driver source

Postby i2productions » Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:00 am

Thanks for the post. I guess that says it all. If they won't do it for a 10 million unit order, they'll never do it. What a sad day. TOTALLY agree with Linus now.

Nvidia FUCK YOU

brummer

Re: Nvidia why they don't release 3D driver source

Postby brummer » Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:51 am

i2productions wrote: I guess that says it all. If they won't do it for a 10 million unit order, they'll never do it.

I wouldn’t share this conclusion. I think, more like autostaic explain, that the IT-market is in a change, and, nVidia needs to reorder there strategy if they would play a leading role in the future of graphic hardware.

autostatic wrote:Recently I saw an item on television about VDL and their department that builds machines for ASML. "Aren't you afraid the Chinese will copy these machines and take you out of business?" the interviewer asked. The answer of the CEO said it all: "They can do whatever they want, they can buy the machines and try to copy them but before they are where we are now we're five years ahead and by that time we'll have better machines."
That strengthens my belief that it's all about innovation. If you don't innovate your market share will decline (Sony anyone?). And imo open source is part of that innovation and patents and intellectual property are not. This is also the reason I think for the weird coexistence of open source related projects and patent wars in big companies like Apple, Microsoft and nVidia. We're in a transitional phase. Innovation, durability and cooperation are the future so I think in the future open source will play a bigger role in the world's economy.


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