I know two people who died from Sars-CoV-2, do you know anyone?

[TAERSH]

This thread is disgusting and dangerous. I request deletion

LM is not a Plattform for disease spreading antivax idiots

Suppressing and deleting dissenting opinions and views is dangerous AND disgusting.
And it's even more dangerous and disgusting to call for deletion.
Next time (since time will change) it might be your topic being deleted and your opinion being suppressed.

In Germany we have a saying (I'm sure you have something similar) that goes:

Ich mag mit Deiner Meinung nicht übereinstimmen, aber ich trete dafür ein, daß Du Deine Meinung sagen darfst.

[khz]

@TAERSH @jonetsu @Gps ...
You have read, understood and agreed to the Forum Posting Guidelines when you signed up here.
Among other things it says " 7) Have a great time discussing music and Linux!".
If you want to discuss politics, medicine, model railroads, esotericism, weapons, ... you are welcome to register in a corresponding other forum.

Here it is primarily about GNU/Linux^Audio.

EDIT: https://lkml.org/lkml/2021/6/10/957

[nils]

In Germany we have a saying (I'm sure you have something similar) that goes:

Ich mag mit Deiner Meinung nicht übereinstimmen, aber ich trete dafür ein, daß Du Deine Meinung sagen darfst.

No we don't. This is a literal translation of a saying from the USA. It is quite the opposite from German law, tradition and mentality.

In Germany we have article 5 of the constitution which is "Meinungsfreiheit", that is freedom of opinion. You can think and believe what you want, but keep it in private. We do not have Freedom of Speech, which is a very important distinction and an important improvement over the problematic concept "Everyone can say what they want, even if wrong, degrading or hurtful". The German constitution is more modern and more up to date with what actually happened in the world than the ones in the world that have "Freedom of Speech" in them.

Moreso, the constitution is ordered in importance. The right to live and to be unharmed trumps freedom of opinion. The dignity of the human being trumps all. You cannot use your freedom of opinion to declare "the ill and the weak can just die, they deserved it", as implied in this thread. You cannot spread lies to say that modern medicine, and the total world wide success story of vaccinations, do not work or even are harmful.

If you say these things you deserve, morally and legally, to be shut down. Not every opinion is important and must be heard. The more important the matter, such as a world wide pandemic with MILLIONS of dead people, the more drastic should a forum about linux audio music production should shut down these total dangerous conspiracy assholes.

But that is besides the point. This is a private forum with private rules. The forum admins must decide if they want to risk that anybody easily impressionable reads this thread and decides to not get vaccinated, not wear a mask and not wash their hands and keep their distance, and will die from that. Which is what happens in the world. The anti-health movement "Anti Vax" spreads their misinformation and people don't know any better, believe the dangerous lies, not take the proper steps, not listen to the medical doctors. And they die. Adults die, children die, healthy people die, ill people die. You cannot fight a virus with "super-foods" and going for a run.

[Gps]

Not sure when it started with me. One big factor was me having suddenly a lot more time after getting ill and not being able to find a job again.

I started to watch documentaries, of which I am pretty sure, I would not have the energy while I still had a job.
About how our money system works, and how that does not work in the favour of 99.99999 % of the people on this planet.

Also allot of stuff like PBS space time. (Quantum Mechanics, Black holes, how they currently think our universe started)
Followed lectures from American universities on you tube.

Learned to read sheet music.

But to get back on topic, we definitely need better media.
I wonder allot about one of the conspiracy theories, about the people who own the banks, also own the media.
If you accept this, allot suddenly does make sense.

YT?

Not sure what your asking ? If you want my opinion on you tube, I like it,
There is allot of nonsense on you tube. (flat earth and NASA being in a conspiracy to fool us in thinking the earth is round)

But Brian Green is also on yt so is Neil degrasse Tyson.

With better media I am referring to the main stream media.

On facebook for example I have given up on warning people about nine for news.
That site is totally not reliable, but people keep posting stuff from that site.

About our money system, I had seen zeitgeist, and wondered if this really was true.
Then found a video of a bank explainng the same thing (like what is called the the federal reserve in America) but the bank left out, how this system is not good for most people.

[wrl]

Suppressing and deleting dissenting opinions and views is dangerous AND disgusting.
And it's even more dangerous and disgusting to call for deletion.

nobody owes you an audience.

[Gps]

But that is besides the point. This is a private forum with private rules. The forum admins must decide if they want to risk that anybody easily impressionable reads this thread and decides to not get vaccinated, not wear a mask and not wash their hands and keep their distance, and will die from that. Which is what happens in the world. The anti-health movement "Anti Vax" spreads their misinformation and people don't know any better, believe the dangerous lies, not take the proper steps, not listen to the medical doctors. And they die. Adults die, children die, healthy people die, ill people die. You cannot fight a virus with vegan food and going for run.

Although I agree, on this being a forum, and the admins can decide we don't discus covid 19 here, I do recent, your claiming I don't listen to medical doctors.

Were do you think, I get my information from ?

This is exactly my problem with the main stream media, who totally tries to ignore all scientist and doctors, that don't go along with the main stream media story.

One of my sources is Peter Borger, a molecular biologist who has designed PCR test.

I also don´t tell people to not take a vaccine. Everybody should decide this for him self.
What I do try to achieve is that people get more critical on what the main stream media is telling them.

Nobody should just believe me either, but do there own research.

[raboof]

In Germany we have a saying (I'm sure you have something similar) that goes:

Ich mag mit Deiner Meinung nicht übereinstimmen, aber ich trete dafür ein, daß Du Deine Meinung sagen darfst.

No we don't. This is a literal translation of a saying from the USA. It is quite the opposite from German law, tradition and mentality.

Actually, it sounds a lot like a quote that is often attributed to Voltaire (though that's not entirely accurate, https://checkyourfact.com/2019/09/17/fa ... om-speech/), which would make it English/French .

But that is besides the point. This is a private forum

Correct. I'm happy and impressed that y'all have seem to have managed to keep things fairly civil.

That said, after 150+ messages in 8 days, I think the signal-to-noise ratio is getting worse, and I've received several requests by forum members to stop this topic (also privately), so I guess it's time for me to put on my "dictator" hat.

Let's do it like this: after this post, everyone can add one more post if they feel there's anything that still needs saying, and then we're done with it.

[TAERSH]

@TAERSH @jonetsu @Gps ...
You have read, understood and agreed to the Forum Posting Guidelines when you signed up here.
Among other things it says " 7) Have a great time discussing music and Linux!".
If you want to discuss politics, medicine, model railroads, esotericism, weapons, ... you are welcome to register in a corresponding other forum.

Here it is primarily about GNU/Linux^Audio.

I did not start this topic for discussion of anything you mentioned. I was just asking, if anyone knows somebody who died from Sars-CoV-2 and/or Covid19. Since I didn't know anyone for the first 13 months of the so-called pandemic who died from that pandemic I was just curious. I even didn't know anyone who knows somebody.

However: several times I repeated my question to get the thread back to my question. However, sometimes discussions take another path. As long as there's nobody seriously harmed it should be Ok. And of course: nobody ever will get seriously harmed by some text in a forum. Instead of locking or deleting topics the related member/user should get a warning and being banned if repeating the cause of the warning. This might get people more back to normal discussion - if such steps are really needed only.

@nilshi

So, you are German. Perhaps my quoted saying is originated from the USA, but we have this saying, as I do know it since 1980. It was often used these days by my political allies, Bündnis90/Die Grünen, then just Die Grünen. It wouldn't be of any surprise to me, If you never heard it, never used it and never lived after it. Leftists nowadays are far more strange and very different to the letfists at these days.

The article 5 of the constitution (Meinungsfreiheit) also includes to say what I want, based on my thoughts and my opinion. Yes, we have had some restrictions in the past and nowadays even more restrictions do arise. There's already some sort of speak-police in politics, media and community.

I don't see how freedom of opinion could seriously harm the "right to live and being unharmed". Except I would be a speak-police officer. Also I did never ever anywhere declare "the ill and the weak can just die, they deserved it", and I never said/wrote anything "that modern medicine, and the total world wide success story of vaccinations, do not work or even are harmful" and the like. It would be very schizophrenic since I'm vaccinated against almost everything like most people in Germany are vaccinated against. So in reply to me just don't put words into my mouth or even turn them into the revert. If you do so, you also deserve (from your point of view) to be shutdown and silenced.

I just don't take the yearly influenza vaccine and I don't want to take the Covid19 vaccine. If that makes me a conspiracy theorist who needs to be shutdown and silenced then I just have one thing to say:

Welcome to the new democracy!

Edit (permitted through raboof):

@nilshi
In your post below you wrote:

...snippet
It was people giving recommendations how to die.
...snippet

Where?
Proof this by a quote, please!

[nils]

This thread should not be locked and archived, as if there was a fruitful important discussion with valid points on either side.
It wasn't. It was people giving recommendations how to die. The thread should vanish without a trace.

You have deleted threads about forking linux audio software, this should be not a big decision.

[jonetsu]

I agree with TAERSH in that there's no action regarding people in this discussion who insult others. And that a moderation action can be beneficial.

But these people using insults and harsh words are for the covid measures. By simple observation we can see that there's some kind of immunity. Whereas people expressing a different opinion can be singled out for any reply they can do using a hint of the violence contained by the others. Just a simple observation. I was once told that I was not a respectable person. Indirectly, by telling me that a respectable long-time user has complained.

Hopefully you are nowhere near thinking that you are bringing any information.

The immune system works very well in a healthy individual, all by itself.

I can understand, though, that you may be impressed by injection products if you are weak, your family is weak, you visit regularly the doctor, have manic depressions, eat shitty foods, do just about no exercise, and the like.

Are you referring to all vaccinations, including polio, measles, diphtheria, tetanus, ...?
Do healthy people need doctors at all according to your theory?
Unhealthy/weak people are to blame for their own fate and are rather waste, so it is good to dispose of the waste - of course evolution theory?

I know that by the rules established this should not get a reply by the concerned person. I'll using the questioning form anyways.

1) Are you referring to mRNA products as being ordinary vaccines ? If so, are you certain that the spike protein does not travel throughout the body ?

2) Have you read that I used the word regularly ? If so, why do you respond in general terms and take the opportunity to use the infamous "theory" word to qualify what I wrote to backup the generality of your reply ? Since you likely missed the 'regularly' word, are these very words here being shuffled in your mind as you read them ?

3) People are responsible for their actions in Life to a large extent. Even though that notion might not be apparent here where some people can insult and use harsh words towards other in complete immunity. It is of course possible to help people who have problems although the incentive should be on good habits (AND NOT CONSUMERISM) starting in school years. In that I do agree with Klaus Schwab's objectives. The problem is, crooks are in positions of power. And crooks are totally absent from mathematical equations and lines of code. Crooks are using these to achieve their goals, with an army of nerds paid at $110 000 a year, like I was, blissfully putting aside any human factor.

This said, people with problems are ALWAYS used by pharmaceuticals to promote safety for all and the selling of products. I hope that by now in your life you have seen this. A minority in poor health is used to sell safety to the majority in good health. This is not related to covid.

I do think its almost funny that when I try to warn people about an, in my eyes, not well tested vaccine, I get accused of wanting people dead and being anti vaccines.

It's then that one can start to think that's there's a feverish reaction being triggered inside people. It is similar in some ways to some religious fervor. I think it's called scientism and has not much at all with actual science despite some who are keen on putting on a show with numbers. Numbers are used as the new bible for this belief.

I have allot of experience on different forums though, and I like how most of this discussion went rather civilized.

I find it great that no-one with a different opinion that the believers in scientism did not reply at par to the harsh words and insults. If there's one important point to remember, it is that one. Only when those people are face-to-face and threatening families, children and self, should proper action be undertaken to their violence, verbal or physical.

Inner peace and flowering be with you.

There has been some interesting information posted particularly by our learned medical friends, but also some dangerous misguided opinions and misinformation so I will be happy to see the end of the discussion.
I had a vaccination last week btw, I'm still alive and well!

Always the ME, MYSELF and I. Other families and children ? Not caring at all if you don't know them. Hence, VAERS and EudraVigilance are made verboten for you, by your own self.

Milo never replied to the question about the spike protein circulating throughout the body, as Japanese studies have shown. You certainly do not care. And I can understand that Milo wouldn't like the Order calling him on that. That's not a phone call a doctor would like to get.

Luckily there are hundreds of doctors (that you shit (1) on them, obviously) that are brave enough.

Since you already told me to shut up, like it was done years ago towards women (you cook well dear, so go cooking and leave the serious talk to us), I can just answer with a certain pleasure that it would be nice if, like some before, you boast about all is well, and then die within the next 2 months, if not sooner. This said, that you do not die makes no ripple at all. It would have been an anecdotal pleasure anyways.

When death occurs by 'covid' no forensic is made. 'Covid' and the death certificate and that's it. See senator Scott Jensen. When death follows an injection of a covid product, then the greatest work is made to decouple the death from the product.

I realise there is a lot of resentment in the world about lockdowns, mask wearing, vaccinations etc. I hate wearing a mask because my glasses fog up.

That's the most idiotic reason to not liking masks I've heard. Can only come from a hard core Sissy.

I would easily smash your face for not wearing a mask and endangering families and children. IF and only IF this was a real pandemic in the traditional sense, as demonstrated previously, according to the Merriam-Webster definition and not the new WHO redefinition that you bath in.

Please, someone delete this thread.

You are going to be über sick, madam.

Ignorant people don't know they're ignorant.

I think it has to be said that @jonetsu wins the Forrest Gump Memorial Prize for the worst Covid metaphor of all time with his kitchen cabinets.

I maintain it. Kitchen cabinet making is an art. But the cabinet maker will not know the purpose. They can be used to store explosives for a terrorist attack for instance.

Likewise, mathematicians can craft their art totally ignoring what the quality of the input numbers are, hence the end purpose.

If you can't grok that then you're useless as far as human affairs are concerned.

But you might be very good with numbers and code.

Luckily, music is not created by numbers.

'Love is in the air' but it's not alone. Get vaccinated.

With experimental products that are not approved but only authorized while there's a state of emergency. So the state has to be maintained to sell them.

Even FDA-approved a medicinal product can be removed from the market due to aide effects, like some of them were, like Vioxx for instance. The covid syringe products are not approved, so they possibly can't be removed from the market due to procedures alone.

So go ahead. Be a lab rat.

"FDA-Approved Prescription Drugs Later Pulled from the Market"
https://prescriptiondrugs.procon.org/fd ... he-market/

By the way, from Toronto dot com, October 30, 2020:

"New hand sanitizer recalls bring Health Canada list to more than 80"

https://www.toronto.com/news-story/1002 ... e-than-80/


(1) Here's a harsh word by a dissident. Jump on it.

Oh and by the way, just doing here what your government is doing for you.

Bonus:

You may be in an abusive relationship if they:

1/ Stop you seeing friends and family
2/ Won't let you go out without permission
3/ Tell you what to wear
4/ Monitor your phone or emails
5/ Control the finances or won't let you work
6/ Control what you read, watch and say
7/ Monitor everything you do
8/ Punish you for breaking the rules, but the rules keep changing
9/ Tell you it's for your own good and that they know better
10/ Don't allow you to question it
11/ Tell you you're crazy and no-one agrees with you
12/ Call you names or shame you for being stupid or selfish
13/ Gaslight you, challenge your memory of events, make you doubt yourself
14/ Dismiss your opinion
15/ Play the victim, if things go wrong it's all your fault

[sunrat]

I was already planning on ending this discussion, because I think everything is already said.

Everything was said about 150 messages ago and it just keeps circling like an ourobouros. You said you were ending your involvement about that far back.

I have allot of experience on different forums though, and I like how most of this discussion went rather civilized.

The word "allot" means "to divide or distribute by share or portion; distribute or parcel out; apportion:". I realise English may not be your first language but the term you seem to intend, meaning a large number or amount, is "a lot".

I realise there is a lot of resentment in the world about lockdowns, mask wearing, vaccinations etc. I hate wearing a mask because my glasses fog up. I realise vaccinations and tests may not be perfect. It's just better than the option of doing nothing and many more sick and dead.
There has been some interesting information posted particularly by our learned medical friends, but also some dangerous misguided opinions and misinformation so I will be happy to see the end of the discussion.
I had a vaccination last week btw, I'm still alive and well!

[Gps]

Thank you on correcting me, and I am not being sarcastic. The only way to improve my English is when people do correct me.

I am happy you are fine after the vaccination.

We do not agree on what misinformation is, but I am trying to end this discussion, so I am gonna bite my tongue.


(Merging two replies into one)

In Germany we have a saying (I'm sure you have something similar) that goes:

Ich mag mit Deiner Meinung nicht übereinstimmen, aber ich trete dafür ein, daß Du Deine Meinung sagen darfst.

No we don't. This is a literal translation of a saying from the USA. It is quite the opposite from German law, tradition and mentality.

Actually, it sounds a lot like a quote that is often attributed to Voltaire (though that's not entirely accurate, https://checkyourfact.com/2019/09/17/fa ... om-speech/), which would make it English/French .

But that is besides the point. This is a private forum

Correct. I'm happy and impressed that y'all have seem to have managed to keep things fairly civil.

That said, after 150+ messages in 8 days, I think the signal-to-noise ratio is getting worse, and I've received several requests by forum members to stop this topic (also privately), so I guess it's time for me to put on my "dictator" hat.

Let's do it like this: after this post, everyone can add one more post if they feel there's anything that still needs saying, and then we're done with it.

I was already planning on ending this discussion, because I think everything is already said. Me and some others here can keep arguing for months, and then we still will not agree.

I do think its almost funny that when I try to warn people about an, in my eyes, not well tested vaccine, I get accused of wanting people dead and being anti vaccines.

I have allot of experience on different forums though, and I like how most of this discussion went rather civilized.

[beto]

Please, someone delete this thread.

[Loki Harfagr]

Since the good old frenchie Voltaire was quoted (though apparently thought as of USA or German origin, might have been some YT processing as midwife in there) let me be, little frenchie end this by quoting (caution: probable typos ahead) Goethe who already said all about this thread some time ago:
"Wenn Man der Teufel an die Wand Malt, Kommt Er. "

[merlyn]

Ignorant people don't know they're ignorant.

I think it has to be said that @jonetsu wins the Forrest Gump Memorial Prize for the worst Covid metaphor of all time with his kitchen cabinets.