COVID-19

Completely and utterly unrelated.

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jonetsu
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Re: COVID-19

Post by jonetsu »

London Real had the 2nd largest youtube stream in the world with their recent interview of David Icke.

What is London Real ? A business accelerator type of motivation outfit which is having a good number of various interviews here and there. Ironically run by Brian Rose, a former banker.

From their main web site: "We believe that spending time watching or listening to inspiring people opens your mind and stimulates new ideas. We also believe in the power of personal mentorship to transform the individual."

London Real promo video, 1 minute:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... 01EGJMhCO4

Web site, about:

https://londonreal.tv/about/

David Icke interview wrap-up, posted today, just under 5 minutes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsnQsqYvXwM

The full interview I could not find today. A few days ago I listened to it and there were 4.4M views reported by youtube. The only link I could find for now is the one dubbed in French, which is not so nice to listen to. The dubbing is stereo separated so one could isolate the left channel and bounce it back to stereo if wished.

However, London Real has produced a lot of shorter videos, by topic, of this interview. Simply do a youtube search with "London Real David Icke"

Again, and as always, David Icke asks for everyone to ponder topics and not to gulp down everything.

Update 1: the full video interview from the London Real web site:

https://londonreal.tv/the-coronavirus-c ... avid-icke/

Sheesh. They're asking to subscribe to view it.

Update 2: Somebody else reposted the interview a few hours ago. 27 views so far. Remember that there were about 4.4 million of views with the original last time I watched a few days ago. I can understand why LR could have removed the original since after all they're a business. Duration is 2:34:41

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHgcVRyQg_I

Update2b: A day later, London Real has now blocked the above copied video. No longer available. I did download it yesterday when seeing it and writing this reply here, so if interested let me know. I frankly consider that the whole interview is worth it as opposed to listening to chopped bits here and there, if only to be able to seize what David Icke means since he goes at length on topics and many aspects are interrelated. For instance he can recommend at one point to not take all he says fro granted but the subsequent excerpts you may listen to if interested will not have that mention.

Update 3: According to David Icke a few hours ago, youtube has deleted the original London Real video. The interview video is now available via davidicke.com which in turn points to this direct link on bitchute:

https://www.bitchute.com/video/H4W7FwBy0Ukh/

The youtube-dl download utility works with bitchute.

At the point of deletion on youtube the view count was 5 million, with an expected ~10 million by today if it had remained there.

Right off the bat, the RT-PCR test created in the 1980s which is used today for covid-19: I'm questioning the role of the amplification which is at its core. We all know in audio that by amplifying we also amplify all the small details which might not have been heard before. In biology, wouldn't such an amplification also amplify all the noise ? This is mentioned in details right at the beginning of the interview. I still have to look up the details about this assertion, for one.

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CrocoDuck
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Re: COVID-19

Post by CrocoDuck »

A quickie from me too (been trying to think about other stuff all day, but couldn't help go read some more).
jonetsu wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:22 pm
Main, which contains links to download:

https://www.who.int/healthinfo/global_b ... ftware/en/
Ah nice. Cool.

@jonetsu, I think you could safely replace most of the sources you linked with just this:

Hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin as a treatment of COVID-19: results of an open-label non-randomized clinical trial

That appears to be the paper to which all supporters of Hydroxychloroquine refer to, and it is freely available. In fact, it was cited in your sources. IMHO, It is generally best to go straight to the source rather than citing third party articles. In fact, I think this was more informative than the majority of the links you provided, and I rather read what the researchers themselves found rather than some opinion on it written by someone else. From the researchers conclusions:
Such results are promising and open the possibility of an international strategy to decision-makers to fight this emerging viral infection in real-time even if other strategies and research including vaccine development could be also effective, but only in the future. We therefore recommend that COVID-19 patients be treated with hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin to cure their infection and to limit the transmission of the virus to other people in order to curb the spread of COVID-19 in the world. Further works are also warranted to determine if these compounds could be useful as chemoprophylaxis to prevent the transmission of the virus, especially for healthcare workers. Our study has some limitations including a small sample size, limited long-term outcome follow-up, and dropout of six patients from the study, however in the current context, we believe that our results should be shared with the scientific community.
The researchers are well aware of certain limitations of their study which, shall be reminded, it is about the effect of those chemicals on the viral loads of the upper respiratory system. This appear to have an unclear link with the prognosis. From section 3.1 of the paper:
3.1. Demographics and clinical presentation

We enrolled 36 out of 42 patients meeting the inclusion criteria in this study that had at least six days of follow-up at the time of the present analysis. A total of 26 patients received hydroxychloroquine and 16 were control patients. Six hydroxychloroquine-treated patients were lost in follow-up during the survey because of early cessation of treatment. Reasons are as follows: three patients were transferred to intensive care unit, including one transferred on day2 post-inclusion who was PCR-positive on day1, one transferred on day3 post-inclusion who was PCR-positive on days1-2 and one transferred on day4 post-inclusion who was PCR-positive on day1 and day3; one patient died on day3 post inclusion and was PCR-negative on day2; one patient decided to leave the hospital on day3 post-inclusion and was PCR-negative on days1-2; finally, one patient stopped the treatment on day3 post-inclusion because of nausea and was PCR-positive on days1-2-3. The results presented here are therefore those of 36 patients (20 hydroxychloroquine-treated patients and 16 control patients). None of the control patients was lost in follow-up. Basic demographics and clinical status are presented in Table 1. Overall, 15 patients were male (41.7%), with a mean age of 45.1 years. The proportion of asymptomatic patients was 16.7%, that of patients with URTI symptoms was 61.1% and that of patients with LRTI symptoms was 22.2%). All patients with LRTI symptoms, had confirmed pneumonia by CTScan. Hydroxychloroquine-treated patients were older than control patients (51.2 years vs. 37.3 years). No significant difference was observed between hydroxychloroquine-treated patients and control patients with regard to gender, clinical status and duration of symptoms prior to inclusion (Table 1). Among hydroxychloroquine-treated patients six patients received azithromycin (500mg on day1 followed by 250mg per day, the next four days) to prevent bacterial super-infection under daily electrocardiogram control. Clinical follow-up and occurrence of side-effects will be described in a further paper at the end of the trial.
It appears that of the patients treated with hydroxychloroquine, 1 died and 3 were admitted into intensive care, while none of those in the control group (no hydroxychloroquine administered) had outcomes this serious. As far as I understand, the unclear link between viral load in the upper respiratory system and prognosis, united with the low sample size of the study, is what is making this particular study inconclusive.

Hydroxychloroquine can be prescribed, and it is being prescribed, for COVID-19 as fare as I am aware in Italy, France and USA. It can also be freely bought in all of those countries (not sure about France? But certainly in Italy). I reckon we will see clearly if it is effective the more it gets used and data gets collected. Note that supply chain strain for the chemical is being reported.

EDIT: Additional sources corroborating the claims above about hydroxychloroquine (and other chemicals) being used on COVID-19 patients, insofar as Italy is concerned:
The Italian Medicines Agency official guidelines for the use of hydroxychloroquine (Plaquenil) for COVID-19 (in Italian):
https://www.aifa.gov.it/documents/20142 ... 952512fdcc

More about experimental chemicals being administered to patients at the moment, still from the Italian Medicines Agency (in Italian):
https://www.aifa.gov.it/-/azioni-intrap ... l-covid-19

ANSA news regarding the first results from Heparin experimentation. Hospitals in my home town are using Heparin and collecting data about its effectiveness (in Italian):
https://www.ansa.it/emiliaromagna/notiz ... b9537.html
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jonetsu
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Re: COVID-19

Post by jonetsu »

CrocoDuck wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 5:41 pm
A quickie from me too (been trying to think about other stuff all day, but couldn't help go read some more).
Me too, Will take the time probably tomorrow or perhaps even Thursday.
CrocoDuck wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 5:41 pm
@jonetsu, I think you could safely replace most of the sources you linked with just this:
That's the IHU Méditérannée in Marseilles with Didier Raoult at the head. He has 200 people working for him, with 86 researchers and was given the highest grant in France of 73 million €. This is not a small scale operation. The IHU is specialized in infections.

That is what's dragged publicly in the dirt, along with Raoult himself. Subsequently the IHU did other tests. Please note that the IHU Méditérannée web site is down since several days now. I likely have mentioned it, Raoult received several death threats in the middle of the night after this initial trial if he wouldn't remove the results of this study. Now who would at the source of these threats. Certainly not regular folks.

Probably no link to this, Lévy was at the opening of the Wuhan, China research center.

Morocco has bought the Sanofi chloroquine stocks. Pakistan is ramping its chloroquine production. Meanwhile in France, chloroquine stocks were stolen.

A 25-second extract of a talk where Didier Raoult mentions this (if you understand a little bit of French) :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKIe4VuJjIo

If you understand a bit more, Idriss Aberkane (economy, neuroscience) has commented on this. There's a lot of politician names mentioned though. 40 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgxGQ7-3u-I

A spoken timeline of the what happened, with news clips, 5 minutes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNvvHVgGJAo

Hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin as a treatment of COVID-19: results of an open-label non-randomized clinical trial
CrocoDuck wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 5:41 pm
That appears to be the paper to which all supporters of Hydroxychloroquine refer to, and it is freely available. In fact, it was cited in your sources. IMHO, It is generally best to go straight to the source rather than citing third party articles. In fact, I think this was more informative than the majority of the links you provided, and I rather read what the researchers themselves found rather than some opinion on it written by someone else. From the researchers conclusions:
I disagree. The context is utterly important. Why launch a series of death threats because of such a study ? Reading only the paper will not tell this. Reading only the paper will not tell of the conflict between Lévy at the INSERM, husband of then minister of health Agnès Buyzn (she resigned right at the start of the epidemics, to try to run for mayor of Paris. She later went in the media in tears saying she was sorry for taking the wrong decisions) that was going on between what we could describe as big pharma interests and crisis-oriented recommended action to try to reserve as much of the country's operation as possible while doing more research.

That was not chosen. Instead, from some unknown directive (irony) all countries Western (at least) decided to shut down their respective economies.

Raoult always has said what's entailed by using hydroxychloroquine with AZT, including the potassium levels. OTOH, chloroquine is 70 years old and was prescribed to millions of people. In short, Raoult said that a checkup has to be made before taking this combination. Of course, the medias passed over this. When you have a highly known (Patrick Cohen) TV show host almost laughing in the face of prof. Raoult during an interview ...
CrocoDuck wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 5:41 pm
It appears that of the patients treated with hydroxychloroquine, 1 died and 3 were admitted into intensive care, while none of those in the control group (no hydroxychloroquine administered) had outcomes this serious. As far as I understand, the unclear link between viral load in the upper respiratory system and prognosis, united with the low sample size of the study, is what is making this particular study inconclusive.
It is inconclusive and other studies are made. The point is, when attacked, react to protect assets and move on with research. Clearly this is not the way the 'establishment' wants to proceed. I mean, death threats ?
CrocoDuck wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 5:41 pm
Hydroxychloroquine can be prescribed, and it is being prescribed, for COVID-19 as fare as I am aware in Italy, France and USA. It can also be freely bought in all of those countries (not sure about France? But certainly in Italy). I reckon we will see clearly if it is effective the more it gets used and data gets collected. Note that supply chain strain for the chemical is being reported.
Hydroxychloroquine was reclassified in JANUARY 2020 on the venomous products list. Yesterday the CEO of SNF (Chemical French company, thousands of employees, business in the billion range) was arrested by the police for recommending it to the employees. He was later released but the signal is given. Health minister Buzyn has thus taken decisions delaying results by weeks in a time of crisis, very likely based on diverging pharamaceutical interests. Chloroquine is approx. 0.10€ per pill.

This is also, of course, not in the paper.
CrocoDuck wrote:
Tue Apr 07, 2020 5:41 pm
EDIT: Additional sources corroborating the claims above about hydroxychloroquine (and other chemicals) being used on COVID-19 patients, insofar as Italy is concerned:
The Italian Medicines Agency official guidelines for the use of hydroxychloroquine (Plaquenil) for COVID-19 (in Italian):
The Italian papers does not mention using azythromycin in conjunction, as recommended by Raoult. Why are they not taking this into consideration ?

Heparin seems promising.

He he, I'm reminded how it's funny in a way to read Italian. It's like tickling because so many words are basically at the same root as French, but in a funny way. " Il trend positivo osservato sugli indici di infiammazione ..." why 'trend' and not 'tendenza' ?

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Noahsark
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Re: COVID-19

Post by Noahsark »

What you're saying sounds like Trump two weeks ago. If you find yourself agreeing with Trump chances are you're completely wrong!
merlyn,

Now Trump is kind of a complex story because it takes understanding the situation from what I like to call a 3rd dimensional perspective.

Trump is what you can call controlled opposition. Trump is the most specifically crafted puppet president this country has ever seen and it is evident that he was brought in to capture the weak minded of those who had woken up some but did not do a thorough enough job of educating themselves, hence they had the rhetoric of conspiracy weaponized against them - he came in on the presidential debates speaking out against the globalist trade deals that america was involved in by past presidents and other such key talking points that got those who were in the "know" attention. This is a prime example of using the truth to deceive. It is like when you go fishing you just don't throw a hook in the water - you have to bait the hook and that is what trump did and he fished up alot of fools who knew of the conspiracy, but not nearly enough to not have fallen for the trap. Now to understand the cunningly deceptive move this was you have to understand its purpose. Which was two fold from what I can see of it, but it may have more components to it that I can't see. First it was devised to draw those aware of the conspiracy who did not cast a wide or deep enough net when it comes to their research into what I call a cul de sac - which basically nullifies them from having any real effect in the world. The second effect was to create the kind of hatred towards trump and to make all people who speak of the conspiracy look like trump dummies in the eyes of the blind. Also trump is riding on the savior complex much like obama did.

It also served as a way to polarize the country and everything he does is aimed at doing that - make the gap wider between the people because a nation divided against itself can not stand.

Obama set the stage for trump - he was like the little jab punch you get before the uppercut comes and knocks the shit out you.

All of the presidents are puppets - even Kennedy was a puppet up until the point when he began to think for himself on the Vietnam situation. If you go back and look at the records at one point he was talking the military industry complexes line - then something happened and he changed his tune. He learned some things and then the bay of pigs thing happened and then he really learned something about the cia and the kind of shit they were into. So what he did was - is that he fired alan dulles, head of the cia at the time and started on the path to dismantle the cia for what they did by training and arming the cubans against castro, leading to what is known as the bay of pigs. The cia set it all up - the invasion was ordered to proceed and let the operation roll - they thought that they could strong arm Kennedy to activate the military to lend support to this cia coup of cuba. Kennedy refused to give the order and all of those cia trained cubans were slaughtered in the bay - hence it is why it is called the bay of pigs, they were slaughtered by Castro's army like pigs. Not long after that Kennedy was assassinated and alan dulles goes on to be involved in the investigation of his murder. Go figure huh, how do think that investigation went? Sounds like a real independent investigation went on there, doesn't it?

America has been under the control of the cia ever since. Before Kennedy, Eishenhower warned of us the military industrial complex and also the technological industrial complex. Well they have taken over the country and the american people for the most part are still asleep at the wheel.

Trump is nothing but a psychological operation against the american people as all of the past presidents have been since the killing of Kennedy.

When you do your research you will find a common thread that runs through each presidency as the agenda unfolds.

Here is a song I wrote with a video slide show that you might find educational on this subject:
They Live!
https://www.bitchute.com/video/idrdihx3K2n6/

and I will leave it at that for tonight.

till next time...

jonetsu
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Re: COVID-19

Post by jonetsu »

Noahsark wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 6:20 am
Here is a song I wrote with a video slide show that you might find educational on this subject: They Live!
https://www.bitchute.com/video/idrdihx3K2n6/
Very well done.

I wonder how people can be fished by Trump. I mean, the bait is not tempting at all putting aside all other considerations. I haven' heard Trump talk often, but it did happen here and there when quoted in video comments. Each time it was a difficult listen because of the total lack of thought flexibility expressed in his sentences. I'm certain that a guy cannot amass a fortune by talking like that to business and investment peers. He dumbs down his talks to the public on purpose.

If the recent talks from Bill Gates as shown in the latest Truthstream vid (which is by the way funny - a nice change of tone which often I find unnecessarily gloomy) it might be that the crisis will be over when 1) every on on the planet gets vaccinated and 2) there's a way to track down in real-time who was vaccinated and who wasn't. People that will comply will be able to 'reintegrate' normal society whereas the others will experience 'disadvantages'.

Freshly posted on a French prominent alternative youtube channel, footage of the Saint-Antoine hospital in Paris, a reference for the eastern part of the city, filmed on the 4th. For all practical purposes, empty. The person who is filming then asks at the reception where he should go since he has a cough. He's told the direction and films all the way to that department. All empty. Only one person was waiting. Today the web site mentions that the visits are forbidden if one has fever or coughs, although according to the mainstream medias there should be nevertheless a lot of people in hospitals.

jonetsu
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Re: COVID-19

Post by jonetsu »

Re: The London Real David Icke interview. Just right before the interview Brian Rose (former banker, who has a larger lighted painting of himself in the hall of his building) expresses his opinion about the interview. He says clearly that he does not agree with many things Icke is saying but, he does that because he finds that over everything else freedom of expression should prevail. And of course, the very large number of viewers of the past interview.

Goes to say, not everyone is adopting a knee jerk attitude when hearing the name 'David Icke'. Even a former banker.

2020, the year of perfect vision ? :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN_6igBLuyc

jonetsu
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Re: COVID-19

Post by jonetsu »

Brain Rose of London Real expressing his view on the management of covid-19 which basically adopts the view of prof. Didier Raoult regarding the management (excluding hydrochloroquine/AZT)

By the way, Brian Rose is out of the M.I.T. and is a vaccine supporter. He filmed this comment as part of his 6K run.

"70-80% Of Us Will Contract This Disease & This Is GOOD"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdaIudGpDFI

He also made a short video about youtube removing the Icke interview. That video had the sound removed.

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Noahsark
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Re: COVID-19

Post by Noahsark »

Here is the last London Real interview with David Icke:

https://www.bitchute.com/video/LDjFqF7nhqlK/

This was a great interview and was removed from youtube - someone loaded it up on bitchute.

It is well worth the time to watch!

jonetsu
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Re: COVID-19

Post by jonetsu »

"Covid-19: four fifths of cases are asymptomatic, China figures indicate"

"New evidence has emerged from China indicating that the large majority of coronavirus infections do not result in symptoms."

The BMJ journal. What is BMJ ?

"BMJ started out 180 years ago as a medical journal, publishing articles on stillborn children, amputation at the shoulder and the climate of the Isle of Wight. Now, as a values-driven company and global brand, we work toward our vision for 'a healthier world.' We do this by partnering with more than 8,000 medical organisations worldwide so they can provide their users with the best available resources. "

This settled, I find it adamant that so many articles are joyously jumping from covid-19 to coronavirus when in the field it makes a tremendous difference. Because we currently care about covid-19, not any coronavirus. Which in turn brings the question, what are the RT-PCR tests actually testing ?

https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1375

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Re: COVID-19

Post by jonetsu »

"Canada unlikely to return to normal until there is a COVID-19 vaccine"

"Apr 9, 2020 2:53 PM EDT

TORONTO (AP) — Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said Thursday Canadians will need to stay at home and practice physical distancing for months as the first wave of COVID-19 cases in the country won’t end until the summer and Canada won’t return to normal until there is a vaccine — which could take a year and a half."

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/can ... 19-vaccine

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Noahsark
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Re: COVID-19

Post by Noahsark »

This article here is worth your attention:

Dr Scott Jensen Reveals “Ridiculous” Covid19 Guidance
Minnesota State Senator says Department of Health guidelines instruct
doctors to list Covid19 as cause of death, without being tested


https://off-guardian.org/2020/04/10/wat ... -guidance/

jonetsu
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Re: COVID-19

Post by jonetsu »

Noahsark wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:01 pm
Dr Scott Jensen Reveals “Ridiculous” Covid19 Guidance
Minnesota State Senator says Department of Health guidelines instruct
doctors to list Covid19 as cause of death, without being tested
Here's a direct link to the TV interview. Whose host might be loosing his job ? Several times he asked the doctor and senator to repeat.

Dr. Scott Jensen, Physician & Minnesota State Senator, says that he got coaching from the statistics dept. on how to fill death certificates. Something he never got before but moreover, it instructed him that there's no need to have any lab testing done in order to make it a covid-19 related death.

Add that to the uncertainty of the PCR test which likely does not test specifically for covid-19 but rather evaluates the reaction of the organism to detect any coronavirus.

"There's no reason o prevent people from doing their work"
"This is a mild disease that does not affect 90% of the people"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsRay1wInBg

In another video he addresses the population of Minnesota with recommendations and also mentions that not as many people will die from, covid-19 than people do yearly from the flu.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kqin3QKkj4k

Regarding Italy:

"A few weeks ago we reported that, according to the Italian Institute of Health (ISS), only 12% of Italy’s reported Covid19 deaths actually listed Covid19 as the cause of death. Given that 99% of them had at least one serious co-morbidity (and that 80% of them had two such diseases) this raised serious questions as to the reliability of Italy’s reported statistics. Prof Walter Ricciardi, advisor to Italy’s health minister, explained this was caused by the “generous” way the Italian government handles death certificates:

The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus."


Includes link to Italian official report:

https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/23/ita ... -as-cause/

jonetsu
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Re: COVID-19

Post by jonetsu »

Brian Rose (London Real) seems to be quite shocked about the situation.

The notion of idea distancing vs. freedom of speech. 12 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuRHpqGbB18

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Re: COVID-19

Post by jonetsu »

Hello,
CrocoDuck wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:57 pm
Sorry but no. Single governments are commissioning studies to third parties, and acting upon the outcome of those studies and the WHO recommendations. What would make sense to do here is stop assuming that the WHO is dictating policies (it doesn't have the authority to do so) and then track down who is doing the studies and how.
The accord on the approach to take, at least in Western countries, is very similar. Exceptions seems to exist with Sweden and Holland. Would have to be confirmed. That common approach, in talk and actions, would have taken a lot of time if independently studied and developed.
CrocoDuck wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:57 pm
The fact the frauds happened in the past is not proof they are happening now. Rather, it is a strong incentive at doing what I am describing above, as the actors are indeed suspicious. Even the most suspicious of criminals needs the proofs to be convicted.
A criminal can change his/her ways, I agree. OTOH, it seems, for instance, that in Italy the mafia does what it usually do, now with a covid-19 twist.
CrocoDuck wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:57 pm
I was referring to what I said above. It would be interesting to know which government entities are commission epidemiological simulations to who, and how those are being carried on.
Italy for one, has admitted that there were errors in the numbers reported pertaining to covid-19 and that a certain number of people died actually from other causes.
jonetsu wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:47 pm
Across Europe and more, in North America also, the exact same behaviour is undertaken.

CrocoDuck wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:57 pm
The approach of the UK is more relaxed than that of Italy and that of Norway is more relaxed than that of the UK, making less use of coercive rules and more use of recommendations. They are using all the same paradigms, that are social distancing and hygiene, which are known to work due to historic data, including those from the Spanish Flu, but applying them to different degrees.
Yes, there are some variations although in essence it's the just about the same.
jonetsu wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:47 pm
Why not assure a good economic operation while continuing research ? Which obviously mean targeting immune-fragile people first and not jamming up the whole system. Which is turn means use very cheap chloroquine now and not wait for studies.
CrocoDuck wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:57 pm
The sources that you kindly provided say exactly why to do so. First of all, chloroquine allegedly helps in reducing the time one needs to heal, which is all good, but it still does not reduce the need for respirators, which does not reduce the strain on healthcare.
Considering that 90% of the population won't be affected, using chloroquine/AZT (do not remove AZT when testing, unless to make prof. Raoult fail on purpose) makes a lot of sense to protect the economy of countries, isn't it.
CrocoDuck wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:57 pm
Then, it is known to interact, with adverse effects, with all the other medications that are used during intensive care, that are still needed even if you use chloroquine (your mate Raoult himself has reported all of this according to your sources). So... doesn't really sound like the silver bullet you are portraying in this thread.
I see. But then I do not use 'mate' I use 'Xfce'.

There's no silver bullet. Is there one for the flu which kills thousands every year ? No. Why should there be one for covid-19 ? Moreover, what is this 'sickness' that looks for a silver bullet ? A 'sickness' because it opens the door to offer a silver bullet, mandatory for every human on Earth (at least in Western countries) when:

1) PCR tests, created in the 80s, if brought up to date

2) Nature makes its way, 75%+ people gets infected w/o any and the virus goes away when the silver bullet is being imposed.

Thus people waiting for a silver bullet become satisfied customers.
CrocoDuck wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:57 pm
In the 70s Italian healthcare system was reformed because infectious diseases were not very common anymore, and population was getting older and affected by chronic diseases instead (cancer, hearth diseases and the like). Hence, it was restructured to crank up the capacity of dealing with chronic diseases at the expensive of infectious ones, as that was not needed anymore. So, when an epidemic hits, there are not resources to fight it.
There you are. In France since at least 2014 tens of professionals in the health care system committed suicide. Governments ignored those serious alarms since 2014.
jonetsu wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:47 pm
Why do we see so often a ping pong use of the terms 'coronavirus' and 'covid-19' ? Thousands of people die each year due to the regular flu
CrocoDuck wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:57 pm
Are the COVID-19 numbers inflated, or confused with ordinary flu? Seems to me that the rate of people dying at the current moment is anomalous. If the COVID-19 statistics are inflated, this cannot be just raised as a question. It is a claim that needs to be substantiated.
The flu cases, the serious and the ones that lead to death, vary from year to year. Some years there are more.
CrocoDuck wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:57 pm
I was more like proposing that we start thinking outside the box at large. With emergencies being granted, and an economy that cannot be halted, we set ourselves for disaster. With all the skepticism in the "mainstream" that pervades this whole thread, I find it intriguing that the core of the economic system itself is not put into question. Your point can be summarized in "it is stupid to social distance as it hurts the economic system". I also find intriguing that in all of this questioning the power is still seen as invincible and voting useless. So what purpose achieve the questioning really?
What's ridiculous, and I agree with many from various walks in life who are recommending the same, is to crash the economy on the basis of this covid-19. With by the way the mainstream articles joyously jumping from 'coronavirus' and 'covid-19' within a same article. What are the PCR tests testing actually ?
jonetsu wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:47 pm
Revealing. So far I always thought that X and Y stood for Xavier and Yolande and that the ">" represented the number of times Xavier impregnated Yolande to produce offspring.
CrocoDuck wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:57 pm
I am not sure if this is a joke. If so, I don't get it. But X and Y are two numbers, and X >> Y means X is much larger than Y...
They do not stand for Xavier and Yolande ???
CrocoDuck wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:57 pm
Can you please for the love of God stop pretending that I am saying that smoking is good for health? I never ever implied that, not even in passing. I have said that, in the context of COVID-19 only, the link between smoking and higher probability of severe outcome of the COVID-19 disease specifically has been proposed, it makes a lot of sense, but has not been proven yet. This should be clear enough English, especially for a polyglot like you.
First do not mix up rhetoric and knowledge of any language. At a certain level the language is important since we think using a language. For instance a language that has no verb tense at all, like Chinese, will influence the thinking of a people through thousands of years.

Secondly, let's take another example. One I experienced recently which left the right hand and arm in not a good state. How much studying do I need to consider that I will not be able to do push-ups because of the state of the current hand/joints ? Same with the lungs of a person that smokes. Smoking affects lungs. Having affected lungs is not like having the lungs of a person that does not smoke.

The misunderstanding, common to this electronic media, is that I was addressing exactly the same in parallel: lungs that are not in a good state will still not be in a good state in front on a covid-19 virus. This is very basic I find. By how much is something else. How much can one smoke per day before actually being vulnerable to covid-19 is something almost totally different. And relies on many other biological factors. But the base line stays. Healthy lungs are not the same as someone who smokes.

Sorry I will not go through the course on inductivism. I read part of the wikipedia page though. Again it gets rid of any other concern eg. that scientists representing Pure Science are also humans. If those humans agree that the notion that water has no memory at all is a totally ridiculous idea, then it will be so. No money will be given for further research and the scientist who brought it up will be radiated if he continues.

Great. Is this 2020 ? Where is Pure Science ?
jonetsu wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:47 pm
So then about your kidney stone description, why are crystals precipitating into larger ones ?
CrocoDuck wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:57 pm
As far as I remember from what I read, it has to do with the relationship between composition and precipitation rate.
Then the question would be why is composition and precipitation altered in such a way in the first place. So on so forth. It can represent in a way the medical stance: treating symptoms mostly.
CrocoDuck wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:57 pm
Right, even though I might sound grumpy here and there I am really enjoying the conversation and I really liked to write on this thread. Still, I feel like I need to take a pause from COVID-19 related things as more people I know are getting infected and I feel I need some distraction. I will maybe come back to the thread in a few weeks time, or maybe just decide to leave it for good. Rest assured that it has been a pleasure to talk with you gentlemen.
As for me I say welcome to covid-19 ! Today we had snow, I went out cleaning the car and stairs in a sleeveless t-shirt, taking in the great fresh air and wind. I extend my welcome, although I suspect I already got it from a visit to the supermarket last week or so. Hoping my body did the right thing and stored it for future use, as with all other strains of coronaviruses most of us all have.
CrocoDuck wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:57 pm
Good luck and stay safe!
I'm afraid that wishing the same would contribute to the world-wide (at least in Western countries) tone of well-groomed panic.

I did not end comments and replies last year thinking about the thousands of deaths due to the regular common flu, so I do not see the need to do so now that the governments and medias are saying it's a good thing to do.

That stance is not devoid of empathy. Although many people are lead to believe so when hard-pressed, as in being lead by the hype of medias and politicians.

Cheers.

jonetsu
Established Member
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Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:05 am

Re: COVID-19

Post by jonetsu »

It happened again as a comment on a yahoo news. I write two paragraphs of what I think, properly written, and yahoo rejects it by silently not posting it. That's the fourth time I think. Every time it's a hand-written text as I understand software can reject text that suddenly appears (copy/pasted). Every time this is surrounded by other comments I have written, and replies, eg. I know how to write comments and replies in yahoo news (as if it has to be stated). The topic is basically the same (not the original text) :

What will be left after all this, when numbers are settled, errors are mostly corrected ? A virus crisis that will have made less casualties worldwide than the common flu. An electronic 'immune passport' giving your 'virus' status (for starters) in real-time allowing you the rights to use public transportation, go to supermarkets, etc. And the infrastructure to support this, namely 5G. Those are the things that could remain.

IMHO I see nothing wrong at all at expressing this. Time and again yahoo silently refuses to post comments when those topics and probabilities are mentioned.

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