to help Windows users migrating to Linux

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funkmuscle
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Re: to help Windows users migrating to Linux

Post by funkmuscle »

bluzee wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 11:17 pm If a developer chooses to release for multiple platforms that is kind of up to them. It may be that it doesn't actually require a lot of extra effort. Releasing things like GTK and QT for windows makes it easier for windows developers to also release for Linux. Things like appimage make it simple to package now. As a result the one program I needed wine for, my income tax netfile software is now available as a native linux app in an appimage.

There are often ways to support open source developers through patron funds etc.

It's pretty obvious that we are going to be left on our own to develop driver support for audio hardware. If those with the desire to work on this need funding for development, purchasing hardware I think crowd funding for this is perfectly acceptable and should be encouraged.

Linux has great software and it leaves me in complete control of my system to do with it as I chose. Mac won't even let you swap out to a bigger SSD.
True and if we want to have more migrate to Linux, why not focus on Linux only making it so appealing that folks will want to drop Windows and Apple and migrate to Linux.

With that, manufacturers of hardware and software will start making their products for Linux.
Face it, you don't get into business to make others happy, you do it for money. So maybe Linux needs to be more appealing to the masses.

We need to make them see that Linux is a serious pro audio platform. They will see dollar bills, we see supported products..
Win win!!!
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Re: to help Windows users migrating to Linux

Post by bluzee »

It definitely helped with the digital TV hardware. "Works with TVHeadend" and the Linux penguin are prominently displayed on hardware websites. I think every DVB device vendor directly supports Linux now. Linux does MPEGTS PID filtering at the kernel level so has a huge advantage over Windows.
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Re: to help Windows users migrating to Linux

Post by funkmuscle »

bluzee wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 10:38 pm It definitely helped with the digital TV hardware. "Works with TVHeadend" and the Linux penguin are prominently displayed on hardware websites. I think every DVB device vendor directly supports Linux now. Linux does MPEGTS PID filtering at the kernel level so has a huge advantage over Windows.
Exactly! I was actually helping my daughter with the TV in her room as she was trying to watch Netflix which is part of the package we subscribe to from our internet and TV provider. Well Netflix was not working from our provider so I said to her you know you have an Android box built into that TV?


She asked me what I meant and I said the whole TV it's a Samsung so it has the Android box or technology built in for the smart part I think but I know that the TVs firmware or operating system or whatever is Linux.

Even the TV box itself is based on Linux.

Mixbus is developed on Linux. Not just the Ardour part but the mixing part also according to Ben and Nathaniel when I reached out to Nathaniel and Ben for some help.

So why wouldn't other companies take note of that. I think live waves or something like that the name slips me for now, that is based Ardour.

So with stuff like that out there you would think by now these for instance the interface developers like focusrite and rme for instance would have created drivers or we don't even need that because there are all USB based but the software why can't the software work for us?


I've been told by a few manufacturers it's because we have so many different distros and I suggested well maybe just make binaries. At least one of the companies that makes hardware preamps said they were thinking of doing that because they have noticed a lot of people are now using Linux.
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Re: to help Windows users migrating to Linux

Post by scott.thomason »

funkmuscle wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 10:53 pm I've been told by a few manufacturers it's because we have so many different distros and I suggested well maybe just make binaries.
A lot of long-time Linux users would simply rather have the Windows/Mac users stay away. We like tinkering and we don't want to support the unwashed masses. Or something like that.

And a lot of the same people would find distributing binaries only to be quite offensive. More than one distro would refuse to include them if that's how they were released.
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funkmuscle
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Re: to help Windows users migrating to Linux

Post by funkmuscle »

scott.thomason wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 11:20 pm
funkmuscle wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 10:53 pm I've been told by a few manufacturers it's because we have so many different distros and I suggested well maybe just make binaries.
A lot of long-time Linux users would simply rather have the Windows/Mac users stay away. We like tinkering and we don't want to support the unwashed masses. Or something like that.

And a lot of the same people would find distributing binaries only to be quite offensive. More than one distro would refuse to include them if that's how they were released.
Yep I agree and yep, I was told that by one manufacturer. But for those who are serious about music, we don't want to tinker with everything. I use to be like that. I loved tinkering but when that tinkering gets in the way of being productive, we have issues.

I know when I say stuff like what I've said above, I've been told to go to Windows or Mac. Yeah, that dude that told me that, I said not all can afford those systems and just think, the next musical genius could be one of those who can't afford Windows or Mac. So do we let the music die with that person?

I've always felt that way and I try to get a lot of creative folks to try Linux.

But man you're right, us Linux users love to tinker. :D :D
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Re: to help Windows users migrating to Linux

Post by bluzee »

When I first started with Linux you had to recompile the kernel to enable audio support as it wasn't compiled in by default. After doing so there still were only limited cards supported. For my sound card I had to buy a driver from 4Front for OSS. ALSA did not yet exist. If memory serves their driver came in some form of binary package. Probably a binary blob kind of deal like Nvidia. Not an ideal situation but we have lived with Nvidia drivers for a long time now and survived that.

We have come a long way since those days.
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Re: to help Windows users migrating to Linux

Post by Largos »

Personally, I don't care if Windows software devs stay off Linux with their stupid crap like iloks and that awful kontakt idea. There's so much good software available for linux, does it really matter whether they are here or not?
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Re: to help Windows users migrating to Linux

Post by bluzee »

Just from the point of attaining enough critical mass that hardware makers will if not support Linux with drivers will at least provide documentation to developers wanting to write a driver.

Imagine the backlash if hardware makers told Windows people they have to reverse engineer their own drivers.
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Re: to help Windows users migrating to Linux

Post by Gps »

scott.thomason wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 11:20 pm
funkmuscle wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 10:53 pm I've been told by a few manufacturers it's because we have so many different distros and I suggested well maybe just make binaries.
A lot of long-time Linux users would simply rather have the Windows/Mac users stay away. We like tinkering and we don't want to support the unwashed masses. Or something like that.

And a lot of the same people would find distributing binaries only to be quite offensive. More than one distro would refuse to include them if that's how they were released.
Did Steam not end this discussion ?

I remember the shock that went trough the Linux community when Steam came to Linux.
And the discussion about Steam updating it self. How did they dare this on Linux.

There are two parts of me, one totally agrees with Stallman. The other part the computer user, who just wants stuff to work.
This user is willing to accept some stuff, when it comes to opensource, but at the end of the day, it just needs to work.

LMMS might be a good example. Still today about every distro, manages to not compile it 100% right.
Then people come to the LMMS forum asking why something is not working.
One problem is LMMS by it self not needing wine, but 99% of the users who want to use windows vst do need wine, and have LMMS compiled with wine in mind.

Just last week an Arch user. His VST problem was fixed by downloading the appimage version of LMMS.
It might not be the Linux way, but it does just work.
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Re: to help Windows users migrating to Linux

Post by mdiemer »

I think technology will eventually get to a point where anything will work on anything. The stuff we have now, like Wine, Linvst, YaBridge etc will evolve to the point where something that was made for windows will just need to be run through some new ingenious program that will render it workable on Linux. Like we have now, but better, universal. The only thing that could stop this is companies specifically designing their programs to only work on Windows, but that may come to be seen as illegal. Apple is a different story, since they make their hardware and thus have way more control over how the software works on it. As we see now with Hackintoshes. Apple is making them obsolete. Of course, the government may well turn the other cheek. They cared about busting monopolies when it was the railroads or oil companies, but with Big Tech it's a different story. They seem to be able to get away with anything they want. Oh, they hold hearings now and then, and talk sternly, but nothing happens. I think they're afraid of them. Probably for good reason.
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Re: to help Windows users migrating to Linux

Post by scott.thomason »

To all...sorry for bringing it up, apparently that pot has already been stirred plenty enough. I'm new here, forgive me.
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Re: to help Windows users migrating to Linux

Post by funkmuscle »

I'm loving the input I'm getting. I do have a lot of Windows vs d but I don't use them at all except for maybe to or 3 of them and they are VSTi.

It's usually drums vsts. I would arrange a song using the program's midi beats and once the song is where it should be, I fire up drumgizmo, use one of their Raw unedited drum kits.

My interface is the Audient Sono. That's the interface with a vacuum tube in it that is made for everybody but with the guitar or bass guitar player in mind. It sounds amazing but I have to go out and buy a laptop running Windows 10 on it just so I can use the software that came with it so I can change the two notes software that came with it for different cabinets. I am just not one for recording a clean direct sound and then dressing it up with amp Sims. I need to feel the music because I'm old school.

So companies like that if they would make the software run on Linux, that saves a lot of headaches. So many times I would be laying down a guitar track and I would have an idea in my head of what I wanted to sound like and sometimes by the time I unplug it from my main box and plug it into that windows laptop, the idea I had for that sound is gone because I was wasting time tinkering.

So that's the support I'm looking for because the driver part you plug a USB device into a Linux box and 99.9% of the time it works at least with me I've had no issues with those USB devices.
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Re: to help Windows users migrating to Linux

Post by funkmuscle »

bluzee wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 1:09 am When I first started with Linux you had to recompile the kernel to enable audio support as it wasn't compiled in by default. After doing so there still were only limited cards supported. For my sound card I had to buy a driver from 4Front for OSS. ALSA did not yet exist. If memory serves their driver came in some form of binary package. Probably a binary blob kind of deal like Nvidia. Not an ideal situation but we have lived with Nvidia drivers for a long time now and survived that.

We have come a long way since those days.
Oh Lord I remember those days! To be honest it was kind of fun!
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Re: to help Windows users migrating to Linux

Post by j_e_f_f_g »

bluzee wrote: When I first started with Linux you had to recompile the kernel... buy a driver for OSS. ALSA did not exist.
I now have an image of bluzee with his pants hiked halfway up his abdomen, and yelling at the neighbor's kids to get off of his lawn.

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Re: to help Windows users migrating to Linux

Post by glowrak guy »

funkmuscle wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 7:35 pm I for instance would use some free Windows VST but I do not rely on them because all you need is an update from wine and things get broken.
Whatever OS and software is chosen, the user must control the update urge, and define a bottom line of functionality, and must not cross that line to update anything that effects the system, be it wine, a lib, a windowmanager, an audio interface etc.

It's the same on any OS. Worse on most.

At least Linux makes it easy to have extra systems for testing new or different versions, or for specialized purposes.

Regarding plugins in wine, it's reasonable to expect the ones lacking complex registration
or authorization systems, to work without issues. I'd guess 95% of the ones I've tried worked.
I recently demo'd a bunch of Tone 2 synth products that all worked, and had excellent sounds and interfaces.

For example, IK's free Syntronik2 CS worked in Bodhi linux with wine 7.7, but not in Avlinux with it's default wine 6.22. By having an extra bootable external drive, my options are extended without risking my stable AVL setup.

And once you've drawn your studio line in the stand, if your studio (by your definition) is important to you,
don't update your kernel, system gui, and libs just beacause you can, without first learning how to undo those actions.

I'm coming to grips with pipewire on another external drive setup, and can confidently exhale 'No worries, mate!'

Apologies if I've redundantly repeated the obvious.
Cheers
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