to help Windows users migrating to Linux

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funkmuscle
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to help Windows users migrating to Linux

Post by funkmuscle »

Hey, it seems like at least once or twice a day there's somebody asking why isn't their Windows plugin or how to get their Windows plugged in working on Linux.

Does anyone think that maybe we should have a disclaimer on the main page or something saying before you continue, please read..

In that section maybe we should tell these people new to this platform what to expect and what not to get their hopes up on.

I for instance would use some free Windows VST but I do not rely on them because all you need is an update from wine and things get broken.

So maybe to the windows users migrating over, we should tell them in advance that they should try to use as much native plugins as possible because it's hit and miss.

I keep hearing that the more people we get migrating over the better it is but I know if I'm trying to change to something and I'm running into headaches because somebody told me my old platforms software could run on this platform using some form of emulation, I would look into things a lot more before making that leap Linux.

A lot of these questions just the way the heading is asked is at least interpreted to me like okay, this is supposed to work so why isn't it working?

I know in the past few years of mentioned about why are the devs spreading themselves so thin by catering to Apple and Microsoft and the answer is always been making it easier so when they migrate we'd have more and then the bigger companies may start paying attention so if that's the case, they should be some form of a disclaimer or an explanation to these people coming from Windows over to this platform on what to expect. I know it's on there here and there but it should be plastered on the front because I could see the frustration when I read that someone is asking why isn't my windows plugging working on Linux.


To me it's self-explanatory. Windows and Linux are two completely separate operating systems so that alone would have answered my question. In fact when I started to use Linux in 1998, that was the first approach I took. I had to tell myself that this is not Microsoft and this is something completely different but that's me and it seems like a lot of people just want to jump in maybe because it's open source meaning everything is basically free and everyone is tired of paying apple or Microsoft ridiculous amount of money for crap that doesn't even work as well as some of the products available to Linux.


This long-winded message here in a nutshell is just trying to say besides just welcoming newbies, how about trying to make that migration as smooth and flawless as possible?


It's just a thought and it's just a suggestion!
Hopefully what I said didn't offend anyone because I'm not saying this to create a new battleground here and ruffle a few feathers. It is the truth because I've been looking at it for a while and I'm constantly seeing somebody asking about why his windows plug-in is not working properly. Yes we all know it may work today but then all of a sudden there's an update to wine and it's not working anymore.
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Re: to help Windows users migrating to Linux

Post by bluzee »

There is a "running non linux software" section in the forum. As long as such questions are posted in that section I don't see the problem. I can freely ignore these.
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Re: to help Windows users migrating to Linux

Post by tavasti »

bluzee wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 10:01 pm There is a "running non linux software" section in the forum. As long as such questions are posted in that section I don't see the problem. I can freely ignore these.
I wonder is there possibility to 'unsubscribe' some subforum? I use 'Unread posts' feature, and sure it gets all subforums. It would be nice possibility to block some subforums (personally, not this, but some other parts)

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Re: to help Windows users migrating to Linux

Post by Largos »

:D As someone who posted today with troubles using windows plug ins, I am under no false illusions. I would just like to be able to use sometimes some vsts I already paid money for. Since switching to Linux music making, I've no intention of getting any more windows only plugins, there is no shortage of plugins, maybe only if you have a specific need.

My advice would be, expect nothing to work and be pleasantly surprised if it does. If the windows plugin is something you can't live without then stay using it in windows.
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Re: to help Windows users migrating to Linux

Post by Gps »

About the same happens on the LMMS forum. (even with Windows users although less often )

Doubt a, please read this, will change that. :)
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Re: to help Windows users migrating to Linux

Post by khz »

@funkmuscle Good idea.
I added the "Linux != Windows" article to the "GNU/LINUX@AUDIO ~ /Wiki $ Howto.Info" link collection and had already tried to show the "Differences between the individual operating systems".
If another article is written I will gladly include it and we can make it sticky in one area. (*1)

<Edit>(*1) My suggestion would be in the "Running non-linux software" section.</EDIT>
. . . FZ - Does humor belongs in Music?
. . GNU/LINUX@AUDIO ~ /Wiki $ Howto.Info && GNU/Linux Debian installing >> Linux Audio Workstation LAW
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Re: to help Windows users migrating to Linux

Post by Linuxmusician01 »

The problem with Wiki's, howto's and sticky's is that they, unfortunately, tend to become obsolete very soon.

At the moment I'd advise no-one to rely on the KXStudio repo's anymore, not to dive too deep into Jack Audio since Pipewire is coming and I'd advice to use yabridge to bridge Windows VST's to Linux. That might change in a heartbeat if the (single) developers of said software stop maintaining it.
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Re: to help Windows users migrating to Linux

Post by funkmuscle »

I also think that the fact that almost everything that is made on Linux for Linux ported to the other platforms is misleading. Lmms for instance. I remember going way back this is years now when I was basically making beats for this hip hop artist and I thought wow this is amazing. I use the experimental version because I just like The cutting Edge that's why I use Arch. Well I remember visiting their site once and the thing is the app is called Linux multimedia studio or something like that but you get to the website and it would say available for platforms and it's like hey, windows and Mac users came first and it just seemed that everything was being prioritized to them. Same thing I thought about hydrogen. As soon as it was available for the other platforms it felt like let's cater to them instead of us using Linux.

If one left our platform to go back to Windows or mac, do you think anyone hold their hands to walk us into it or make things easier by making the applications a lot user friendly or I should say a lot more user friendly?


I am not a Dev and I don't know the first clue about making programs and I can't say I understand why they make it on this platform and then expand it to the others because I was told years ago it will bring more people in from the other platforms but to me it's just they keep using Windows and Macs I'm not migrating over. These devs are not getting paid and I think they are just basically spreading themselves thin and maybe that's why they stop maintaining it. I could be wrong!

My thing is that we should get bold and just focus on Linux and make it so freaking good that we don't have to bend to say hey Windows user, hey Mac user, look over here look what we got!

Maybe if we made something strong enough because you don't see the other platforms developers if they are just strictly for Mac making anything available to Windows or the other way around windows making anything available to Mac because they truly believe in their platforms. Again before anyone shoots me I could be wrong I'm just creating a conversation here not criticizing.

So as I said I'm not criticizing I am just making suggestions but what do you guys think if our devs just focuses on Linux? Make it so appealing that it will pull the others over and we will have software that are very good alternatives to all the big brands out there that wouldn't even look at Linux...

Again it's just a suggestion. This is just for discussion. That's why I brought it up but I'm stating all this because many times people get bent out of joint and it turns into an online argument.
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Re: to help Windows users migrating to Linux

Post by Gps »

About LMMS let me quote one of the devs.

Software for just one platform is out dated, software should be cross platform.

Although I agree for the most part, when it comes to LMMS, when your already short on devs, why not just focus on Linux. :(

Windows and Mac users can already choose from a lot of DAW.

That's also how and why LMMS started, a Fruity loops clone for Linux. If I recall right back then we only had 3 daw for Linux.
LMMS, Ardour and Rosegarden.
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Re: to help Windows users migrating to Linux

Post by funkmuscle »

Gps wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 7:04 pm About LMMS let me quote one of the devs.

Software for just one platform is out dated, software should be cross platform.

Although I agree for the most part, when it comes to LMMS, when your already short on devs, why not just focus on Linux. :(

Windows and Mac users can already choose from a lot of DAW.

That's also how and why LMMS started, a Fruity loops clone for Linux. If I recall right back then we only had 3 daw for Linux.
LMMS, Ardour and Rosegarden.
You are so correct. It was those three and then we had hydrogen and yes it was a clone of fruity loops. That's why I asked them why are you making it available for Windows when this is supposed to be our answer to fruity loops? They already had fruity loops or fruity loop or whatever it's called.

Then Rui started his amazing line of applications. The Q stuff. So look how far we've come but I think we would have been a lot further ahead if we stood boldly and just focused on Linux.

Again I'm not picking on the devs but I've had Windows user friends say to me it looks like you guys are not sure if your platform and I would ask why? I remember one friend distinctively saying do you see windows devs catering to your platform or even Apple devs catering to your platform and at the time no.

He then turned around and said look at how many of your devs who are not getting paid spreading themselves out so thin by trying to please everybody. That stuck with me.

Again I am not criticizing our devs for doing what they're doing but I think if they put it out to the other platforms they should at least try to make some money out of it. Keep open source for us and a fee for them. I don't know how that works with the laws on open source and all that kind of stuff but I've seen open source stuff being sold so maybe these guys should charge for the other stuff.

Ardour I think charges for the windows and the Apple version because maybe the Apple you can build from source but I think for Windows you need to be dropping the binary packages. I could be wrong because as I said I am not familiar with how to make programs or anything like that.

We have these devs busting their asses for us and we are so grateful for it that's why sometimes I would get mad when someone would complain about something on here not working properly I'm the first thing that would come to my mind is, this guy built this thing in his spare time so we should be grateful and politely ask the question instead of crapping on them. If you bought the product then yes you got all the rights to crap but I went down that rabbit trail there just to basically get something off of my mind.

So again those are suggestions that I make there and it's open for discussion. Not open for argument. We could be very civilized about this and I think we could probably end up being very productive.


Someone earlier mentioned that they started a Wiki and yes it becomes obsolete quickly but maybe it's something that a few of us can keep an eye on and chipping and update. Maybe even if it's on here as I mentioned a disclaimer that comes up explaining to migrators what to expect. I think that alone would make up their minds if they want to venture over or stay with the platform they are currently on instead of leaving one headache and coming to another headache.
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Re: to help Windows users migrating to Linux

Post by bluzee »

If a developer chooses to release for multiple platforms that is kind of up to them. It may be that it doesn't actually require a lot of extra effort. Releasing things like GTK and QT for windows makes it easier for windows developers to also release for Linux. Things like appimage make it simple to package now. As a result the one program I needed wine for, my income tax netfile software is now available as a native linux app in an appimage.

There are often ways to support open source developers through patron funds etc.

It's pretty obvious that we are going to be left on our own to develop driver support for audio hardware. If those with the desire to work on this need funding for development, purchasing hardware I think crowd funding for this is perfectly acceptable and should be encouraged.

Linux has great software and it leaves me in complete control of my system to do with it as I chose. Mac won't even let you swap out to a bigger SSD.
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Re: to help Windows users migrating to Linux

Post by Gps »

funkmuscle wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 7:58 pm
You are so correct. It was those three and then we had hydrogen and yes it was a clone of fruity loops. That's why I asked them why are you making it available for Windows when this is supposed to be our answer to fruity loops? They already had fruity loops or fruity loop or whatever it's called.

Then Rui started his amazing line of applications. The Q stuff. So look how far we've come but I think we would have been a lot further ahead if we stood boldly and just focused on Linux.

Again I'm not picking on the devs but I've had Windows user friends say to me it looks like you guys are not sure if your platform and I would ask why? I remember one friend distinctively saying do you see windows devs catering to your platform or even Apple devs catering to your platform and at the time no.

He then turned around and said look at how many of your devs who are not getting paid spreading themselves out so thin by trying to please everybody. That stuck with me.

Again I am not criticizing our devs for doing what they're doing but I think if they put it out to the other platforms they should at least try to make some money out of it. Keep open source for us and a fee for them. I don't know how that works with the laws on open source and all that kind of stuff but I've seen open source stuff being sold so maybe these guys should charge for the other stuff.

Ardour I think charges for the windows and the Apple version because maybe the Apple you can build from source but I think for Windows you need to be dropping the binary packages. I could be wrong because as I said I am not familiar with how to make programs or anything like that.

We have these devs busting their asses for us and we are so grateful for it that's why sometimes I would get mad when someone would complain about something on here not working properly I'm the first thing that would come to my mind is, this guy built this thing in his spare time so we should be grateful and politely ask the question instead of crapping on them. If you bought the product then yes you got all the rights to crap but I went down that rabbit trail there just to basically get something off of my mind.

So again those are suggestions that I make there and it's open for discussion. Not open for argument. We could be very civilized about this and I think we could probably end up being very productive.


Someone earlier mentioned that they started a Wiki and yes it becomes obsolete quickly but maybe it's something that a few of us can keep an eye on and chipping and update. Maybe even if it's on here as I mentioned a disclaimer that comes up explaining to migrators what to expect. I think that alone would make up their minds if they want to venture over or stay with the platform they are currently on instead of leaving one headache and coming to another headache.
I am not criticizing any devs either.

In theory, making a program cross platform could be easy.
You "only" need to run cmake 3 times :P

I do know this happens for some games.
Games usual runs on their own game engine, which then only needs connecting to the OS it is used on.

https://docs.unrealengine.com/5.0/en-US ... al-engine/

Windows 10 64-bit
macOS latest Monterey
Ubuntu 20.04

Many years ago I was wondering, what if the LMMS devs and Ardour devs would be working together.
I do not know many devs, but the ones I do know are just people, and that makes this not as easy as it sounds. :wink:
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Re: to help Windows users migrating to Linux

Post by j_e_f_f_g »

Gps wrote: many devs I know are just people
We prefer to be addressed as "gifted masters of the stuff nobody else knows how to do".

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Re: to help Windows users migrating to Linux

Post by Linuxmusician01 »

What @funkmuscle said.
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Re: to help Windows users migrating to Linux

Post by robbert-vdh »

Linuxmusician01 wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 10:07 amThat might change in a heartbeat if the (single) developers of said software stop maintaining it.
No plans to do so anytime soon. :)

I'm very busy IRL right now so yabridge 4.0 will have to wait another couple of months, but check out yabridge's master branch. I've done a full backend rewrite of pretty much...everything to make it even easier to set up and more resilient to configuration issues. Especially when updating it and when packaging yabridge for distros. Most of it should be invisible to the end user, but one notable change is that yabridgectl no longer copies the full yabridge-vst2.so and yabridge-vst3.so files around. Instead, yabridge now uses these tiny 'chainloader' libraries that don't need to be updated and that link to the actual yabridge plugin libraries at runtime to forward plugin API calls. That way yabridge's plugin libraries and hosts can never go out of sync again, evne if you don't rerun yabridgectl sync after yabridge gets updated. And VST2 plugins are now also set up in ~/.vst/yabridge by default but you can revert back to the old behavior if you want to.
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