Moderation on linuxmusicians.com?

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Loki Harfagr
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Re: Moderation on linuxmusicians.com?

Post by Loki Harfagr »

j_e_f_f_g wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:53 am
tramp wrote:the banjo I've build
jonetsu wrote:If I reply using the same tone, I'll be banned ?
If your reply has the tone of a banjo, you should be both banned and excommunicated.
Wouldn't it be quite a Deliverance then? If so should I better find first my bow or my guitar?
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Re: Moderation on linuxmusicians.com?

Post by merlyn »

j_e_f_f_g wrote:On a related note: I'd like to apologize to anyone who received my dick pics in their email.
Apology accepted. I thought it was a picture of a banjo at first, but now that you mention it ... eeeew. I'd get that looked at if I were you, ASAP.
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Re: Moderation on linuxmusicians.com?

Post by jonetsu »

j_e_f_f_g wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:41 am
jonetsu wrote:I find this comment offensive.
Then I owe you an apology for apologizing for sending you my x-rated pics.
Until then I did not know that a dick can fit between two banjo strings.

I mean, since j_e_f_f_g gets away post after post grossly ridiculizing the topic of moderation ... while serious worldwide once-in-a-lifetime events polite comments are questioned regarding their existence in the Backstage misc section ...
Last edited by jonetsu on Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Moderation on linuxmusicians.com?

Post by jonetsu »

tavasti wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:00 am
jonetsu wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:58 am I replied to the topic of being notified about new posts. That your requested feature is implemented or not only shows that there's a current feature that allows notifications to be received (RSS or otherwise, as a previous participant has mentioned).

I never have used that existing function of being notified about x number of new posts in any sections of the forum.
I am not talking about getting notified any way, but just on forum web ui on quick links there is 'Unread posts' which is the way I read this forum.
In the end that one gets information about unread posts via RSS or by manually clicking on a menu item, it amounts to the same: the information is about comments that were not read in the forum. Again, never used such a function, be it by notifications, by clicking on a menu item or else.
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Re: Moderation on linuxmusicians.com?

Post by milkii »

raboof wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:54 am Sorry about that - I did see that post but didn't realize you wanted a reply ;).
milk wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:22 pm I'm afraid that people might not want to stick around LM because a lack of proactive moderation.
That would of course be sad. Unfortunately, though, it is impossible please everyone: moderation decisions are often judgement calls, and any course of action is likely seen by some as too strict, by some as not strict enough, and often both.
Yes, but I feel like you're just saying a vague thing there and not following through with the logically required focus on what actual specific policies can be implemented in future in such cases, how you and your team might have dealt with the same situation differently.

The reason for the deleting of that thread has been very ambiguous. I'm not even sure, because I accused studio32 of shouting "fake news" about New Session Manager being a step forward, whether I am being accused of behaviour that was being moderated against by deleting the thread.
raboof wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:54 amI agree with your earlier post that it is helpful to not just delete content, but also discuss what it and isn't considered acceptable here, to help set expectations and norms. On the other hand, if a thread doesn't get back on track despite warning, sometimes just deleting it and starting over can be the right thing to do.
Saying that makes only makes sense if you don't believe/realise there are other ways of handling such a situation that aren't just right but better.

What is the point in deleting a thread and telling nothing to any of the parties involved about why their actions got the thread deleted?

I think that's missing the point of moderation, the socially proactive part, using words rather than abrupt/harsh actions to resolve a conflict. No-one has learnt anything, no-one is going to be changing their posting behaviour.

And along with communicating with the people involved, maybe locking a thread in such a situation might be more sensible? Or is there an option or mod to Hide them? There was a lot of good information about the differences between Non Session Manager and New Session Manager, and nilshi said in IRC they made super extra effort to remain neutral-point of view in their last responses to refute the claims that studio32 had made about what either NSM could/couldn't actually do.
raboof wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:54 am
milk wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:22 pm Currently there feels like too much of a laissez-faire approach to a signal-to-noise problem (excepting the blunt removal of a post).
Thanks for that feedback. As said, moderation decisions are judgement calls, and I typically no problems with threads drifting off from the original topic, as long as it's related to creating music on Linux. In the 'Backstage' forum there explicitly is some room for off-topic posts, though we should keep that within reasonable limits. For example, in retrospect I think we should have wrapped up the discussion in the thread titled 'COVID-19' earlier. As you probably noticed not everyone necessarily agrees: I got quite some harsh criticism when I noted it was time for that thread to wind down.

As said, feel free to use the 'Report this post' functionality if you want to call moderation attention to any particular post, I'm happy to look into them and discuss how to proceed.
Not contacting any of the folk involved in the deleted thread was a judgement (multiple judgements actually), and I think that judgement was not healthy for the community.

Judgements can be made in the moment, and they can also be worked out in advance (certainly after something comes up), which gives policies and guidelines for moderators to work with.

Having policies in advance also saves time having conversations about problems every time one arises.
I typically no problems with threads drifting off from the original topic
As is apparent with the amount of off-topic shitposts now in this thread.

they/them ta / libreav.org / wiki.thingsandstuff.org/Audio and related pages / gh

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Re: Moderation on linuxmusicians.com?

Post by j_e_f_f_g »

merlyn wrote:thought it was a banjo string
You must have misread the email. I said "hung", not "strung".
merlyn wrote:I'd get that looked at if I were you.
That was the whole point of emailing the pics to you.

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Re: Moderation on linuxmusicians.com?

Post by j_e_f_f_g »

jonetsu wrote:j_e_f_f_g gets away grossly ridiculizing the topic of moderation
I'm not that gross. I did bathe this month, which is standard procedure for programmers.
jonetsu wrote: while serious worldwide once-in-a-lifetime events polite comments are questioned
It's not a matter of politeness. It's more a matter that the natural human inclination is to want to "have fun" and "enjoy life", especially during stressful times. People need "stress release valves". No one is going to use a family funeral for that. But a bulletin board about "fun stuff" like music or computers is ideal.

Except, there are some people who are so oppressively dour and depressing that they can turn the most innocent stress release into yet another source of stress. After enough exposure to such people, everyone else is forced to choose between 2 options:

1) Abandon their favorite stress release, and run away just so they don't have to endure more stress.
2) Scream for the moderators to rush in and obliterate every thread like it's a volkswagon at a monster truck rally.

I didn't read the other thread, but it sounds like it was a whole lot of number two, literally and figuratively.

This is an extremely superficial impression, as I haven't had other contact with you. But based upon your reactions to my posts in this thread alone, I'm guessing it would be difficult for me to choose between socializing with you, or listening to an endlessly looping recording of Fergie singing the world's national anthems.

Unless you were hosting a "Burn your banjo" party.

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Re: Moderation on linuxmusicians.com?

Post by merlyn »

j_e_f_g wrote:That was the whole point of emailing the pics to you.
It looks like the tertiary stage of banjoitis to me. Consult a medical professional at your earliest convenience. (You may have to put a mask on it to be allowed in the clinic.)
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Re: Moderation on linuxmusicians.com?

Post by GMaq »

j_e_f_f_g wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:12 am
khz wrote:many music programs have their own forum, so would it be forbidden to talk about them here?
That's something to consider. It's hard for the single-developer apps, such as BackupBand (https://sourceforge.net/projects/backupband/files) to compete with the more established, and usually commercial brands that can afford to setup their own hosting services etc. The author of BackupBand (https://sourceforge.net/projects/backupband/files) doesn't make any money off of this open-source software. (He's a great humanitarian. Or rather, he would be if he didn't hate people). So without an advertising budget, it's difficult to promote software such as BackupBand (https://sourceforge.net/projects/backupband/files). There's only the avenue of non-profit forums to use as promotion for apps like BackupBand (https://sourceforge.net/projects/backupband/files). And when the "big boys" are allowed to utilize the same outlets, even this "advantage" plays against the likes of BackupBand (https://sourceforge.net/projects/backupband/files). So the fair thing to do may be to limit discussion to the small-ticket, open-source items like BackupBand (https://sourceforge.net/projects/backupband/files).

In conclusion, I think we should ban discussion of all software except BackupBand (https://sourceforge.net/projects/backupband/files). After this website becomes a forum dedicated to BackupBand (https://sourceforge.net/projects/backupband/files), then we'll have established a level playing field.

Until then, we're stuck with the oppressive dominence of commercial vendors and their "hard sell" tactics. And aren't we all just a little sick of being bombarded with the ubiquitous self-promotion of these people? I know that the author of BackupBand (https://sourceforge.net/projects/backupband/files) is.
Hi, I'm brand new to Linux, hope I'm not posting this in the wrong place..

I've been searching this forum and all over the interwebs for a program that can serve as uhm... like a backup band...? Does anyone know of a program that is like Band in a Box but much more hard to find and done by a shady independent developer?? Like a program that could like help me practice guitar soloing really really fast, like so speedy fast?? Like a program that I could use to play my cousin Andy's wedding where I could just play by myself and like there would be something like a software "band" that would also play at the same time but not with real people??

If anyone has ever heard of such a kind of program to do backing up with a band but not really people just software band members please let me know where I can find it, sorry If I posted in the wrong place, Hello everyone!





*Now back to our regular programming...
Last edited by GMaq on Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Moderation on linuxmusicians.com?

Post by lad »

I don't really understand why all the shit posts in this topic, as I think milk actually brings up valid points and haven't seen a real response to it. Maybe I'm missing something though. Tbh it's rather annoying imho. It's not a good scene. Aren't topics called topics for a reason?
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Re: Moderation on linuxmusicians.com?

Post by jonetsu »

j_e_f_f_g wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:33 pm It's not a matter of politeness. It's more a matter that the natural human inclination is to want to "have fun" and "enjoy life", especially during stressful times. People need "stress release valves". No one is going to use a family funeral for that. But a bulletin board about "fun stuff" like music or computers is ideal.
Music is fun although it's not dissociated from life events and emotions, AFAIC. 'Computers' are interesting eg. design patterns, multitasking in Go, etc, etc, but a stress-relieve valve ? Nope.

Why do you have such stress in the first place. Looking for stress relieve is like taking aspirins for leucemia. Goes nowhere near the cause of the stress.
j_e_f_f_g wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:33 pmExcept, there are some people who are so oppressively dour and depressing that they can turn the most innocent stress release into yet another source of stress.
Well yeah, if you positioned yourself to need stress relief and do not address the cause of stress deeply, you'll be weak. In such case anything can set you off. Anything, just at the right moment of seeking stress relief.

Maybe that's how people who can't stand a 'wrong look' are made.
j_e_f_f_g wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:33 pm1) Abandon their favorite stress release, and run away just so they don't have to endure more stress.
2) Scream for the moderators to rush in and obliterate every thread like it's a volkswagon at a monster truck rally.
Makes me think, I recently sold my Echo 2005. The guys who got it will put a turbo V6 in it.
j_e_f_f_g wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:33 pmThis is an extremely superficial impression, as I haven't had other contact with you. But based upon your reactions to my posts in this thread alone, I'm guessing it would be difficult for me to choose between socializing with you, or listening to an endlessly looping recording of Fergie singing the world's national anthems.
When one is looking for stress relief there's no time/ People are categorized into boxes.

This was a serious topic. Seriousness is also fun. Sometimes it even leads somewhere and people learn along the way.

Then you intervened with gross sexual jokes.

No wonder.

BTW I created some time ago a Humor thread in Backstage.
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Re: Moderation on linuxmusicians.com?

Post by tavasti »

lad wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:37 pm I don't really understand why all the shit posts in this topic, as I think milk actually brings up valid points and haven't seen a real response to it. Maybe I'm missing something though. Tbh it's rather annoying imho. It's not a good scene. Aren't topics called topics for a reason?
I suggest pressing 'report' for posts that annoy you. I don't mind some joking, but now this thread seems to filling up with same stupid joke, so soon I will be switching to report-pushing.

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Re: Moderation on linuxmusicians.com?

Post by raboof »

First off, some perspective: I think this forum is doing pretty well! In the last 15 years we have only 'actively' moderated a couple of times (not counting spam), and on the whole mostly people have a good intuition of what's acceptable and where to stop.
milk wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:22 pm I feel like you're just saying a vague thing there and not following through with the logically required focus on what actual specific policies can be implemented (..) The reason for the deleting of that thread has been very ambiguous. (... judgements can be) worked out in advance (certainly after something comes up), which gives policies and guidelines for moderators to work with. (...) Having policies in advance also saves time having conversations about problems every time one arises.
I disagree.

In my experience, trying to capture what is and isn't acceptable in a clear-cut 'policy' is impossible, unless you choose a policy that is at the extremes of the spectrum (so basically 'anything goes' or 'no offtopic posting ever').

I don't want to choose a policy at the extremes: I think *some* offtopic posts (in backstage) are fine, though 12 pages of them (like in the 'covid' thread) was too much. I think some friendly banter/shitposting (like in this thread) is fine, though I think it's enough now ;).

In my experience trying to capture that in a 'policy' just invites first endless debate about the policy, and then endless debate and complaining about any decision made based on that policy.
milk wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:22 pm I'm not even sure (...) whether I am being accused of behaviour that was being moderated against by deleting the thread.
I don't remember any problematic posts by you.
milk wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:22 pm What is the point in deleting a thread and telling nothing to any of the parties involved about why their actions got the thread deleted? (...) Not contacting any of the folk involved in the deleted thread was a judgement (multiple judgements actually), and I think that judgement was not healthy for the community.
The point is to clean up the mess and give the participants a chance to start over with a clean sheet. I called for people to keep it friendly publicly in the thread and talked to several of the participants in private before and after the moderation.
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Re: Moderation on linuxmusicians.com?

Post by raboof »

lad wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:37 pm I don't really understand why all the shit posts in this topic (..) Tbh it's rather annoying imho. It's not a good scene.
tavasti wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 5:29 am I don't mind some joking, but now this thread seems to filling up with same stupid joke
Yeah, let's stop with that.
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Re: Moderation on linuxmusicians.com?

Post by tramp »

milk wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:22 pm
raboof wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:54 am Sorry about that - I did see that post but didn't realize you wanted a reply ;).
milk wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:22 pm I'm afraid that people might not want to stick around LM because a lack of proactive moderation.
That would of course be sad. Unfortunately, though, it is impossible please everyone: moderation decisions are often judgement calls, and any course of action is likely seen by some as too strict, by some as not strict enough, and often both.
Yes, but I feel like you're just saying a vague thing there and not following through with the logically required focus on what actual specific policies can be implemented in future in such cases, how you and your team might have dealt with the same situation differently.

The reason for the deleting of that thread has been very ambiguous. I'm not even sure, because I accused studio32 of shouting "fake news" about New Session Manager being a step forward, whether I am being accused of behaviour that was being moderated against by deleting the thread.
raboof wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:54 amI agree with your earlier post that it is helpful to not just delete content, but also discuss what it and isn't considered acceptable here, to help set expectations and norms. On the other hand, if a thread doesn't get back on track despite warning, sometimes just deleting it and starting over can be the right thing to do.
Saying that makes only makes sense if you don't believe/realise there are other ways of handling such a situation that aren't just right but better.

What is the point in deleting a thread and telling nothing to any of the parties involved about why their actions got the thread deleted?

I think that's missing the point of moderation, the socially proactive part, using words rather than abrupt/harsh actions to resolve a conflict. No-one has learnt anything, no-one is going to be changing their posting behaviour.

And along with communicating with the people involved, maybe locking a thread in such a situation might be more sensible? Or is there an option or mod to Hide them? There was a lot of good information about the differences between Non Session Manager and New Session Manager, and nilshi said in IRC they made super extra effort to remain neutral-point of view in their last responses to refute the claims that studio32 had made about what either NSM could/couldn't actually do.
raboof wrote: Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:54 am
milk wrote: Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:22 pm Currently there feels like too much of a laissez-faire approach to a signal-to-noise problem (excepting the blunt removal of a post).
Thanks for that feedback. As said, moderation decisions are judgement calls, and I typically no problems with threads drifting off from the original topic, as long as it's related to creating music on Linux. In the 'Backstage' forum there explicitly is some room for off-topic posts, though we should keep that within reasonable limits. For example, in retrospect I think we should have wrapped up the discussion in the thread titled 'COVID-19' earlier. As you probably noticed not everyone necessarily agrees: I got quite some harsh criticism when I noted it was time for that thread to wind down.

As said, feel free to use the 'Report this post' functionality if you want to call moderation attention to any particular post, I'm happy to look into them and discuss how to proceed.
Not contacting any of the folk involved in the deleted thread was a judgement (multiple judgements actually), and I think that judgement was not healthy for the community.

Judgements can be made in the moment, and they can also be worked out in advance (certainly after something comes up), which gives policies and guidelines for moderators to work with.

Having policies in advance also saves time having conversations about problems every time one arises.
I typically no problems with threads drifting off from the original topic
As is apparent with the amount of off-topic shitposts now in this thread.
@milk
In my opinion it was clear from the very first post in the 'deleted thread' that it goes to be deleted sooner or later. As it was never the goal of @studio32 to write a HowTo about building Non Session Manager (the build process is written on the project page anyway), but he would introduce a shitstorm against the forked New Session Manager, like he have done on several other places before. And so it comes, the discussion heated up to a point were we couldn't call it a discussion any more. At least, no real information was in that thread to be saved. So deletion was the best what @raboof could do. (And I'm glade he do it) Put the hand on your heart and ask yourself, was there anything worse to save beside the insults in this thread? Also, I think, when a thread becomes so insulting that it requires the interaction of a moderator, there shouldn't be a notification to the involved members needed. It isn't a childhood here.

However, I just receive some new strings for my Banjo, going to prepare it for some fun. :lol:
On the road again.
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