Using Linux for live gig work - how many would trust it?

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Linuxmusician01
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Re: Using Linux for live gig work - how many would trust it?

Post by Linuxmusician01 »

pax-eterna wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:28 pm Thanks LinuxMuso01 - yeah I get what you are saying for sure!

My move to Linux was after years of growing annoyance with MS and then when I read where W11 was heading I decided that was where we part company.

I've been looking for some Linux alternatives for a while now - MOST particularly something akin to Sampletank a large sample based library of excellent sounds, and so far I have found nothing similar. There are some as I call "sorta kinda" options which I guess in the fullness of time I will need to investigate to get totally off the MS teat, but to now, it's a "needs must" situation.
Unfortunately I've got no experience with that sort of software (sample players?). You might consider starting a separate topic about this. But bear in mind that Linux is a niche OS and producing music on it is even more niche. I hope somebody knows an alternative, if there exists a Linux alternative.
pax-eterna wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:28 pm I have looked at Carla but without knowing a whole lot about which plugs (native Linux) to use to get the job done, I've sort of "luxuriated" in being able to stick with what I know (VST's) but still under the Linux banner.
Did you know that you can use Windows VST's in all Linux applications (like Carla)? It's called a "bridge". Have look at YABridge by Robbert van der Helm who's active on this forum and who is very helpful. Unfortunately this uses Wine. Yep, again the dreaded Wine. And preferably the latest version, sometimes referred to as Wine-staging (which isn't in many standard repo's (yet), but there are solutions for popular distro's like Ubuntu). I can use any Windows VST (ver. 2.4 or ver. 3) in Carla or a DAW in Linux. But, alas, Wine again... So not very stable. I've got better experience with VST 3 than 'ye olde VST 2.
pax-eterna wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:28 pm I am finding that the reality is I cannot trust wrapping software in a live situation, as everyday (while COVID is on not much happening performing wise) I fire up the system to continue, some other issue pop up requiring several hours of research and fixing. Stuff that wouldn't happen in W10 and if it did I am so familiar I can fix it in usually a minute or so.
Switching to Linux for your average basic computer work like internet browsing and word processing isn't that hard. More specialist stuff, however, requires one to take a long, long time finding acceptable alternatives and learning to use 'm. Took me a long time to 100% switch from Win to Linux. Concerning music one needs to lean 'bout:
  • Jack
  • Plugins like LV2, LADSPA, VST for Linux, VST for Mac, VST for Win etc.
  • How to use Linux VST3 in Linux (in the near future that'll be available in every distro, today you might have to use special repo's to install the latast versions of music software that supports VST3)
  • Bridging VST's (if need be)
  • DAW's that work in Linux
  • The difference between Alsa, PulseAudio and Jack

pax-eterna wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:28 pm I don't want to keep a separate version of an offline Windows (not withstanding the excellent suggestion it is) as that, to me, is defeating the purpose I moved over to Linux ion the first place.
That, indeed, is almost impossible in a practical situation where you need to perform live.
pax-eterna wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:28 pm I'll re-visit Carla and try and "nut it out" a bit more.
Also immerse yourself in what bridging VTS's is and how to do it. Good luck! :)
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Re: Using Linux for live gig work - how many would trust it?

Post by pax-eterna »

thanks m8 - appreciate it :) All good advice there 8)
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Re: Using Linux for live gig work - how many would trust it?

Post by pax-eterna »

wjl wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 8:19 am
pax-eterna wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 10:54 pm ... Carla ... cannot change the buffer rate from 1024
As tavasti said, that's the jack config - and since you're using Carla, Cadence is your friend...
So if I run Cadence should I uninstall anything that has overlapping duties?
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Re: Using Linux for live gig work - how many would trust it?

Post by sunrat »

wjl wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 8:19 am
pax-eterna wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 10:54 pm ... Carla ... cannot change the buffer rate from 1024
As tavasti said, that's the jack config - and since you're using Carla, Cadence is your friend...
Or QJackctl which I prefer over Cadence. I believe development has slowed to a trickle for Cadence whereas QJackctl is updated often.
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Re: Using Linux for live gig work - how many would trust it?

Post by Linuxmusician01 »

pax-eterna wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:40 pm
wjl wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 8:19 am
pax-eterna wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 10:54 pm ... Carla ... cannot change the buffer rate from 1024
As tavasti said, that's the jack config - and since you're using Carla, Cadence is your friend...
So if I run Cadence should I uninstall anything that has overlapping duties?
Nope. :)

And if there is stuff that should be removed (uninstalled) to install something then your package manager (like Synaptic, apt-get etc.) will warn you and do that for you.

I think that fiddling with Jack and such is something you might consider later. I'd try to run my favorite VST with Carla first to get to know Carla (or: Carla-rack). If you kinda like Carla than you might want to optimize its use.
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Re: Using Linux for live gig work - how many would trust it?

Post by ycollette »

I use quite often Linux for Live music.
My setup is based on Fedora + the LinuxMAO COPR repository:
https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs ... /linuxmao/
This repository will be rename audinux for Fedora 35:
https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs ... t/audinux/

In the folllowing video, I used LMMS for one song, and guitarix + tuxguitar + non mixer and jack for the 2 other songs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcfJQBBnSaY

I never had problems with this setup.
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Re: Using Linux for live gig work - how many would trust it?

Post by folderol »

On one of the Linux Audio Conferences some years back. I ran Yoshimi without a break for 90 minutes, swapping instruments in and out and adjusting various settings via a BCF 2000, playing excerpts from pieces, live, or from Rosegarden, or both. At one point I got Yoshimi to run a second instance (called by the main instance) in order to demonstrate shared MIDI but independent audio out. The laptop was pretty standard, and also had to support audio and video feeds to the auditorium. I was running at 64 frames and didn't get a single Xrun.

Among other things I demonstrated program and bank changes via MIDI as well as 4 part vector control. As far as I'm concerned, provided you have a well thought out setup. Linux is rock solid as a base for music - Plugins are the weak point on any system (I don't use them at all), so make sure you test all the ones you want in the combinations you are going to use them in.
The Yoshimi guy {apparently now an 'elderly'}
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Re: Using Linux for live gig work - how many would trust it?

Post by Transit_of_Io »

My Linux setup is scary for live/portable situations mainly because of the laptop-stress problem. I'm working on porting most of it over to a Raspberry Pi for the durability, and adding more Pis as needed to get up to full functionality with synths, sequencing, looping, percussion, and vox processing. So far at home the performance of the Pi4 is blowing my mind (Ubuntu Server 20.01 with Ubuntu Studio, LXDE, 8 gb RAM, small powerbank). Will report back after I take it bike camping, about whether or not it feels like the hardware is jeopardized by the jostling and the weather.

Posted as a reply here because (I think) if a setup can handle camping and road stress in a bike pannier, it can handle any stage.
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Re: Using Linux for live gig work - how many would trust it?

Post by Linuxmusician01 »

Transit_of_Io wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 7:45 pm My Linux setup is scary for live/portable situations mainly because of the laptop-stress problem. I'm working on porting most of it over to a Raspberry Pi for the durability, and adding more Pis as needed to get up to full functionality with synths, sequencing, looping, percussion, and vox processing. So far at home the performance of the Pi4 is blowing my mind (Ubuntu Server 20.01 with Ubuntu Studio, LXDE, 8 gb RAM, small powerbank). Will report back after I take it bike camping, about whether or not it feels like the hardware is jeopardized by the jostling and the weather.

Posted as a reply here because (I think) if a setup can handle camping and road stress in a bike pannier, it can handle any stage.
What version of the Pi4 do you use exactly? The one in the red&white keyboard? How much RAM does your Pi4 have: 2 or 4 GB?
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Re: Using Linux for live gig work - how many would trust it?

Post by Transit_of_Io »

Linuxmusician01 wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 1:39 pm What version of the Pi4 do you use exactly? The one in the red&white keyboard? How much RAM does your Pi4 have: 2 or 4 GB?
It's a Pi 4b with 8 gb of RAM. I think the one built into a keyboard is the same board/computer with extra stuff. I did get a case for it but may end up mounting it in a project box with its powerbank and the usb hub.
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Re: Using Linux for live gig work - how many would trust it?

Post by Linuxmusician01 »

Transit_of_Io wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:39 am
Linuxmusician01 wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 1:39 pm What version of the Pi4 do you use exactly? The one in the red&white keyboard? How much RAM does your Pi4 have: 2 or 4 GB?
It's a Pi 4b with 8 gb of RAM. I think the one built into a keyboard is the same board/computer with extra stuff. I did get a case for it but may end up mounting it in a project box with its powerbank and the usb hub.
Thank you for the info. That indeed is the "powerhouse" of the Pi's. The 8 GB version is almost twice the price of the 2 GB version: good to see that it's worth it.
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Re: Using Linux for live gig work - how many would trust it?

Post by chaocrator »

i don't trust ANY generic OS, including Linux.
so i even avoid Linux-based grooveboxes (AKAI MPC/Force line and NI Machine+).
however,
  • i have RPi running Linux for MIDI router job to handle three Korg NTS-1 units — well enough so far;
  • i have Linux laptop as a spare sequencer (MusE 4 in MIDI-only mode) — just in case my proper (hardware) sequencer fails.
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Re: Using Linux for live gig work - how many would trust it?

Post by Linuxmusician01 »

chaocrator wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:05 pm i don't trust ANY generic OS, including Linux.
so i even avoid Linux-based grooveboxes (AKAI MPC/Force line and NI Machine+).
however,
  • i have RPi running Linux for MIDI router job to handle three Korg NTS-1 units — well enough so far;
  • i have Linux laptop as a spare sequencer (MusE 4 in MIDI-only mode) — just in case my proper (hardware) sequencer fails.
Out of curiosity: what hardware sequencer do you use?
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Re: Using Linux for live gig work - how many would trust it?

Post by Transit_of_Io »

I took the Pi setup camping. It did just fine. There was no rain and no extreme temperatures. With a 10,000 mAh powerbank, I played for about two hours and barely dipped into its capacity. That was with several soundfonts loaded, plus Sooperlooper, plus my spawling (but not terribly processor intensive) Pure Data MIDI control patch, hosting a wifi hospot, and VNC with LXDE desktop on Ubuntu Server 20.01, "performance tweaks" and kernel from Ubuntu Studio Installer.

It and all its accessories (not including keyboards) were packed in a plastic box that previously contained dishwasher pods, and that packed in a plastic bucket that used to hold cat litter,* loaded on a single-wheel bicycle trailer. It was pulled on paved roads, up and down street curbs, and along semi-muddy off-road tracks.

I trust it more now than ever, on the pi. I would never completely trust any system or instrument on which I hadn't spent many hours working (and customizing), for this or any other kind of work. The Pi is on track to becoming my primary instrument, but not dismantling the laptop just yet.

As far as I know, "proper" musical gear doesn't play nicely with light-weight bike travel, though I met a guy once who was busking his way across the Southern Tier with a guitar, on a nice, stout touring bike.

Should probably mention that I've done a lot of theater tech and came to rely on someone else's Linux system to run sound cues. Never missed any because of the computer.

Hope this isn't too long. Thanks for your eyeballs. Best of luck with your system.

*These containers will outlast all of our bones on this earth, unless some of us manage to get fossilized.
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Re: Using Linux for live gig work - how many would trust it?

Post by Linuxmusician01 »

Transit_of_Io wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:42 am I took the Pi setup camping. It did just fine. [...]
What LCD screen did you use? How did you power that one, etc.?
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