Help needed with trying to cover something

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Gps
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Re: Help needed with trying to cover something

Post by Gps »

I now have a version of about 6 min and 30 seconds.

While listening to the original, mostly to hear if I have all parts, I noticed, I don't yet.

The first time a woman speaks French, is the part missing. Then there a second part with more French, but I do already have that part.

It always makes me smile since I found out the English and French mean the same, although the French is not sung.

Also some work to do on two transitions. One is into the Chris Payne part, then after this a chord progression of my own.

Need to compare my ending with the original, I already added a violin but I am not to happy on how that sounds yet.
l think I can get much closer to the original then I am now, with only some minor changes.

That missing part will be a challenge, because of what they do with that synth. Are they using one of those wheels on the left side of musickeyboards ?
I do know how to pitch bend in LMMS, but have no idea yet, if that is what they do. Will find out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMPR6Ujop4k
At 1m12 :)

Also need do some more listening, on the part rghvdberg helped me with.
I can´t make up my mind about the speed. When I use a lower speed version (notes more spread) it does not sound bad at all.
It even fits the track better, although speed wise the fast version is closer to what Chris does.

One man on a lonely platform, one case sitting by his site
Un homme dans une gare isolée, Une valise à ses côtés :lol:
Gps
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Re: Help needed with trying to cover something

Post by Gps »

Hooked up my midi controller, and in LMMS selected it for midi recording.
Then used QMMP to listen to fade to grey. Then I tried to play along at the part were the woman speaks French. (first time)

Because I don't have a clue on what notes are played, this is for me more about finding the pattern of the notes in the piano roll.

It probably starts with an A though. :mrgreen:

After an attempt or six, my notes even fitted between the bars. (offcourse the quantisation in lmms helped me with this)

This was my face when looking at the pattern. :shock:

I am 95 % sure, this chord progression is not in my cover yet.

Now I have to find the right notes, but when I played this part with the original, my note lengths seemed to be right.
It did sound bad because it goes out of tune after that first A, but I probably have found the right pattern. :D

Also had some fun playing along with the original, the CEA part.
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Re: Help needed with trying to cover something

Post by Gps »

Baby steps.

D6, C6, D6, A5 sharp :shock:, A5, probably F back to G.

This makes it about half way trough that piece.

Watched two synthesia vids. One of those totally messes this part up, or should we say he is doing an improvisation. :P

The other one helped with the above notes, my ears seem to agree on that A sharp. :shock:
When I try a note in scale there it sounds less like the original.

This explains why I could not find it in the scale of A minor, because it does not exist there. :lol:

The pattern I had found still stands. (note length)

Having fun, and very happy on the progress I keep making. At least my relative pitch seems to be improving still.
(there is allot of room for improvement there though :wink:)
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Re: Help needed with trying to cover something

Post by Gps »

I have an chord progression, not sure if its 100% right , but for now happy with.
What I have is D6,C6,D6,A5#, A5, G5, A5, F5, E5, D5, C5, B4, A4. I might try sonic visualizer on that part, see if it help me, to get the 100% correct notes.

I had the same notes as a synthesia vid, but in that vid they keep going down the scale, too fast in my opinion, so I changed that.

I do have one question.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMPC8QJF6sI

At 1.12 min, what is happening, an opening of a filter ? It does not seem to be a pitch bend. :)
Last edited by Gps on Wed May 19, 2021 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Loki Harfagr
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Re: Help needed with trying to cover something

Post by Loki Harfagr »

the 1:12 "incident" sounds to me like a good old "portamento", that was a very common tool on most standard keyboards of the previous era and it eventually was still used when that kind of nightdiscofadstomp stuff took over the world ;)
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Re: Help needed with trying to cover something

Post by Gps »

Thank you, will have a try with portamento. :)

The note slight leading into it is easy to do. Automate the pitch.

I do remember that disco died, and me personal was not happy about it. But to me disco took revenge in the form of House. (even more repetitive)
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Re: Help needed with trying to cover something

Post by Gps »

Time for some noise.

At 0.08 sec the part I was, am, fighting the last few days.
https://soundcloud.com/user586365033/fade-to-greytest3

It needs some work, but it does have that grey to fade feel. :D
I might have to move the notes until I really like it. To my personal taste it goes down too much in the scale.
As far as I can tell though, this is happening in the original too, the melody going down in the scale.

(the synthesia vid I used for help, is even worse on this, going down even more)

I am looking at portamento, and it might be it, but automating zasfx in LMMS is a problem. Only few knobs can be automated.
Porta one of them, so I might get lucky.

I am also googling on organ vst, but I probably already have the best available vst for that, at least for fade to grey.
Not an organ, but a preset on a minimoog.


Part of me can´t still believe how I found the right note lengths, by playing along, not caring if I hit the right key.
Then using my ears to get it right.
Not bad for somebody who when he released his first track, got the question if he was tone deaf.

Never give up, never surrender. (although taking a break sometimes, might safe your sanity :wink: )
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Re: Help needed with trying to cover something

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I am starting to worry if this is possible in LMMS. :(

I might ask on Discord, or I am gonna bother one of the LMMS devs.

I think zasfx is the only synth in LMMS that has portamento, but that can't be automated.

I found on git hub a topic about it, how basically they made the wrong button automated according to one of the devs.

That would explain, why if I rotate that porta dail in LMMs, not much if anything is happening.

Another solution might be to look if I have a VST , that has portamento and that I can automate.

Gonna have a look at the minimoog. This one works very well in LMMS, and as far as I can tell, I can automate all knobs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqLDw4UfhD4

I don't think it has portamento though.

To be continued :)

Edit: The knob I was talking about only turns portamento on or off. The other settings, I can't automate (in LMMS). Looking at note slide tutorials, but have not seen a solution yet.
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Re: Help needed with trying to cover something

Post by Gps »

Learned allot again. :)

Portamento and note slides.

The wauwau effect I also am after, is probably something else.

Synth1 can do Portamento, and I can automate every knob of it in LMMS.
ZASFX has Portamento, but I can't automate all those knobs.

To be contuined


(I need to hire a coder for LMMS to have swing, stretching of audio clips, humanisation, and all knobs of zasfx able to automate.)
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Re: Help needed with trying to cover something

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I have been messing around with some VST. Especially looking for those that have those two wheels left of the keyboard.
I am not sure if I am on the right track.
This is gonna be another challenge.

It must be some kind of slide. :)

Might have to read the manual of my midi controller. (keystation mini 32)

It does not have those wheels but it has pitchbend, and maybe something else.

Found it:

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/10438 ... e=3#manual
Pitch Bend Buttons
As the name indicates, the assignable pitch bend buttons are primarily used to bend the notes played on the
keyboard up or down. Pressing and releasing these buttons while playing lets you play phrases not normally
associated with keyboards, such as guitar-style phrases.
Your sound source determines if and how far you can bend the note. The usual setting is two semitones;
however you should refer to the documentation provided with your sound source for information about how to
change the Pitch Bend range.
You can also reassign these buttons in Edit Mode.
Modulation Button
The modulation button takes the place of a wheel that is typically used for modulation of the sound you are
playing. The depression of the button mimics the rotation of a wheel. This type of real-time controller was
originally introduced on electronic keyboard instruments to give the performer options such as adding vibrato,
just like players of acoustic instruments do.
Just like the pitch bend buttons, the modulation button is fully MIDI-assignable.
The default Continuous Controller number (MIDI CC) for Modulation is 1.
Modulation, Its worth a try :)
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Loki Harfagr
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Re: Help needed with trying to cover something

Post by Loki Harfagr »

I'm not so sure I could really understand a few of your last posts but just in case I'll have to precise that on some synths or synth-plugins when they seem to not have "portamento" you may have a chance they just called it "glide" or "legato" instead (which were some usual confusing terms uses as is, back then ;)
Besides for some specific glides/portamento you might as well simulate/mimick it with the the pitchbend wheel, especially since it's programmable you'll be able to have a choice at the ramping/speed off it.
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Re: Help needed with trying to cover something

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Well the problem for me started after watching some vids, and then getting rather confused.

I then learned Portamento is also a note slide, but its a specific note slide, depending on the last played note.

So I dove into my vst collection, because I think you are right on it being one of those wheels, left to the keyboard, allot of old synths and keyboards had.

Then I started to wonder about my midi controller, which does not have those wheels, but has a plus and minus button system, replacing those wheels.

My midi controller can do pitch bend, but I am pretty sure its not a normal pitch bend.

One the vst I tried had a metal strip, to slide stuff. Funny how that works by using your mouse. Move mouse up or down on that strip.
(instead of using your finger on that metal strip, on the real synth)
Could it be, its something like this.

The problem I encounter though, the sound goes out of scale, which does not surprise me, but this does not happen in fade to grey.

Fun fact, I tried the kvr forum too, already have 63 views but not one reply there :lol:
So I am not the only one not having a clue on how they do that wauwau sound.

Wondering if I should ask UNFA, he is much better with synths then me.
He also knows LMMS, although he is using ardour more these days.

I love LMMS, but I am sometimes a bit jealous when I watch fruity loops, albeton and cubase tutorials.
They have allot more (better) plugins.

Edit: I found the email address of UNFA, fingers crossed.
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Re: Help needed with trying to cover something

Post by Loki Harfagr »

OK, I understand a little bit why I was lost in your previous comments on various FX sources :D

I'd think that approximately what you need is a tool to mimic this kind of stuff (using SoX):

Code: Select all

  play -n -c1 synth tri E6   tri E5 sin E4 bend .0,500,2.1 trim 0 5 gain -9
I'd bet there are zillion ways to do it in most synths, alas I have no clue on how to use LMMS, each time I try to use it (including a few minutes ago) I'm helpless and falling in the eternal void of nonunderstandingtheleastbitofit, just like I was a snake facing a guitar or a spider wanting to use a bike, just can't even find how to add/use an instrument (apart a funny 3 cells buzzer and some sort of a pumtchaker) and when I finally got some notes on some panel and want to add a glide it needs another panel which is now freezing all the previous efforts :D Guess I'm too old to get in there now so I hope some folks on the LMMS fora will find, understand and answer your question :)
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Re: Help needed with trying to cover something

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I will have a look at SoX :)

My problem is kinda the other way round, I know LMMS pretty well, but get istantly lost in other daw except fruityloops.

Once tried Ardour and after 20 min of trying, did not even got one sound out of it and gave up.

For some time wondering if I should use a better Daw then LMMS, but recording live sounds is not relevant for my use case.

The stuff I miss in LMMS are swing and humanisation. I do not know what that guy did, with an Atari ST and cubase, but he had made a rhythm.
We the audience complained the drums sounded so mechanical.

He then did some magic in cubase with the mouse , and it suddenly it sounded as a Live drummer.
I want that in LMMS :P
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Re: Help needed with trying to cover something

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