Help needed with trying to cover something

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Gps
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Re: Help needed with trying to cover something

Post by Gps »

Some progress. :D

I at first managed to have something in LMMS in sync with Chris payne at 40% speed in sonic visualizer. (so both LMMS and sonic slowed down allot)

That part in LMMS is definitely close to what is happening.

1/32 quantisation in he piano roll. :)

A7,A6,A5,A6,A5,A6,A5,A6. is what I have. (that's two beats long)

This up down up down pattern makes me count one two, one two, one two, fast.
But there is more, a melody ?
I am tempted to call it off beat, were I go 1,2,3,4, 1,2,3,4 This 1,2,3,4 is slower then the one two part.

Notes or chords going down in a 1,2,3,4 pattern.
Or are the chords doing the Alberti pattern ?

Somebody on the LMMS forum replied and brought up the Alberti-arp, Mozart's std arpeggio it seems. :)

Slowly some puzzle pieces are starting to fall in place.
In this topic a classical piece was also mentioned, and I although I can't remember the name, I remember part of the youtube vid.

All this has let to something I have now in my cover at 115 bpm.
Changed it so it follows C,E,A for now, but I have a different chord progression in mind.

Its not yet 100% what Cris payne does, but I was never this close before. :D

Now that second part, wtf is going on there :P

For now I think this second melody happens once per two beats. So I need 8 beats in total.
I do realise that calling it two different parts is arguable, but its what my ears and allot of trying are telling me.

Never give up never surrender 8)
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Re: Help needed with trying to cover something

Post by rghvdberg »

A bit of guess work here and there, but I think this is it.
Midi, ogg, musescore file, pfd are uploaded to https://archive.org/details/fade-to-gray

Here's a preview of the sheet music
Fade_To_Gray-preview1.png
Fade_To_Gray-preview1.png (65.2 KiB) Viewed 5761 times
Fade_To_Gray-preview2.png
Fade_To_Gray-preview2.png (41 KiB) Viewed 5761 times
It sounds like this https://ia601406.us.archive.org/8/items ... o_Gray.ogg

Hope this helps
Last edited by rghvdberg on Tue May 11, 2021 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Help needed with trying to cover something

Post by Gps »

tenryu wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:43 am IMHO, it's not far from Bach: Prelude in C minor, BWV 847 (The Well-Tempered Clavier, Book I., No. 2). I think you should look at the score, it may help.
Reading this topic from the start again, and yes it definitely something like how that bach piece starts :)
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Re: Help needed with trying to cover something

Post by Gps »

And now looking at this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjk-YRuQZDE

Especialy how it starts is something like what Chris is doing. And what was suggested in this topic. :)
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Re: Help needed with trying to cover something

Post by rghvdberg »

check a few posts back
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Re: Help needed with trying to cover something

Post by rghvdberg »

I did a thing for you
https://diode.zone/videos/watch/3c5987b ... f4ad130e4b
tutorial.png
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Gps
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Re: Help needed with trying to cover something

Post by Gps »

rghvdberg wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 6:27 pm I did a thing for you
https://diode.zone/videos/watch/3c5987b ... f4ad130e4b
tutorial.png
:shock: omg, how did you do that , that is it, the thing I am searching for, for weeks now. :lol:

It seems I was a bit on the right track, but not real close to this yet. I kinda had the basics rhythm for one hand, and was already breaking my head over that other hand, and the right notes.

What makes me happy, I was thinking two notes being played together, but I doubt I would have found the real solution myself.
What got me thinking two notes ?
Because I tried to find what notes he was using, but could not find it, just going through the minor scale in LMMS.
So my conclusion was two or three notes (a chord) was being played.

Thank you very much :D

On a site note, I already have a fade to grey cover of 6 minutes, with a little bit of my own, but this is what was missing, the improvisation? of Chris Paye.
The fade to grey hit, that got into the charts, does not have this part. (so no sheet music or midi files for that part)

I also need to find some violin sound, noticed that while listening to the original yesterday.
I downloaded the movie, so its save at my hard disk.

To download the movie, you need a Bittorrent program. BitTorrent original written to distribute Linux Distro. :P

Edit: While looking at the sheet music, I noticed I have to correct myself. There is sheetmusic of this fade to grey part. :)

Edit2: Download the midi file, and its 167 bpm, so I will have to fit this into 115 bpm. :) For now I am optimistic this won't be too hard, because I think, I have already the right speed (note spacing) in LMMS at 115 bpm.
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Re: Help needed with trying to cover something

Post by rghvdberg »

Gps wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 1:08 pm
:shock: omg, how did you do that , that is it, the thing I am searching for, for weeks now. :lol:
I had a lot of practice :-)

I used Sonic Visualiser to slow down parts if needed.
I also peeked at his hands, and from the movement of his hands I could also get an indication what he was playing.

To fit in 115 , you could
1) make the notes half length, so 2 bars become one
2) keep it as it is and delete every other bar

Rob
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Re: Help needed with trying to cover something

Post by Gps »

Again thank you.

Making progress :)

Although it confuses me a bit, I got it on the grid at 115 bpm.

What I did is move the notes 1/32 twice.

How to explain ? I started by selecting all notes except the first two, them moved all other notes 1/32 to the left.
Repeat until I had moved all notes. (of course selecting every step, two notes less)
When I listened I decided I had to do it one more time. :)

I hope, I am making sense, but more important this fits the beat.

I now have 1/32 Quantisation, and this is also the spacing between the notes. :)

I had already divided 167 by 115 but then realised, I was making it way to complicated.
Also good luck on moving notes 1.452 BPM :lol:

Now I need to do a chord progression, but that should be easy. (the midi file already has it)
Then make the other instrument tracks in LMMS, do the same progression.

Gonna study that progression, because something has been bothering me.
My cover does not follow this progression, and I think it should.
This issues has been bothering since I saw Chris Payne explaining fade to grey.

Devenir gris :mrgreen:
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Re: Help needed with trying to cover something

Post by rghvdberg »

Looks like you're doubling the tempo of the notes, which would work.
When I run the midi file in sync with Fade to Gray by Visage, I like it better at 8th notes, but you'll need to cut out half of the measures

I tried to make a small demo of it but Ardour hates me tonight and I hate it back.
Notes keep disappearing when I cut midi regions , drives me crazy. :cry:
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Re: Help needed with trying to cover something

Post by Gps »

I am now wondering if this part is not too fast at the moment, it does not sound bad though.

Something to think about and do some more testing. Slower would probably sound better :)
Even if this gets me into trouble beat wise.

I am also gonna have a listen again to chris payne live.
The strings and bassline, what chord progression is happening when he does this piece.
I already started by changing the bassline, but when I listened to it, doubt started to sink in.

it's possible the bassline does not change and keeps going CCEA.

Learning allot, one part is how the notes change to stay in scale. You can't just copy paste this pattern, if you want to stay in the scale.

I hope the link works, this is what I have now. First just copy pasted the bassline.
https://soundcloud.com/user586365033/fade-to-greytest
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Re: Help needed with trying to cover something

Post by Gps »

Been looking around the net, and it seems the sites agree on the bpm, 112 or 113.
I could slow down my cover a bit, I am currently at 115.

Been moving notes, and when I add 1/32 of spacing back between the notes, I am roughly at the same speed as, the tutorial made for me.
A speed I like very much, but it sounds bad in my cover because it does not fit between two bars.
I also think that speed is about the same as what Chris Payne is doing when he explains fade to grey.

So I have a few options.
Adjust the melody so it does fit.
Keep what I have now, which is quite fast but works.
Add more spacing, but then it gets too slow.

Another solution would be, to redo the track at 167 bpm, but lets not go there. :P

Been watching the vid again of chris payne playing fade to grey live.
I think I have the chord progression already in my cover, although it needs some adjusting, so it plays nice with the dyads pattern. :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyad_(music)
All the stuff I learn, trying to cover something. :D
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Re: Help needed with trying to cover something

Post by alexson »

Nice video
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Re: Help needed with trying to cover something

Post by rghvdberg »

I am not sure you understand how bpm (tempo) and midi work.

When you add a midi file it just plays at the tempo that the DAW (lmms in this case) is set to.
You don't have to 'convert' the midi file that is set to 167 bpm.

If you throw a midi file with a bpm of 167 bpm in a DAW and you set the tempo to 12, it will play the music at 12 bpm.
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Re: Help needed with trying to cover something

Post by Gps »

rghvdberg wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 10:43 pm I am not sure you understand how bpm (tempo) and midi work.

When you add a midi file it just plays at the tempo that the DAW (lmms in this case) is set to.
You don't have to 'convert' the midi file that is set to 167 bpm.

If you throw a midi file with a bpm of 167 bpm in a DAW and you set the tempo to 12, it will play the music at 12 bpm.

The small problem I have(had) is that your file is 167 bpm, which seems to me the correct speed for that part.
Fade to grey how ever is 122/113 bpm.

So after import it plays much slower then your original. I then in my fade to grey cover, started to move the notes from the midi file, to have it sync to the beat. I did not change the midi file, that is still at 167.

Fun fact, while trying to recreate this part, and failing, I did stumble on this same issue. It did not fit between the bars.

The only issue i have with my fix, is that I like that part better at the original 167 bpm.
It's now a bit fast.

https://soundcloud.com/user586365033/fade-to-greytest
This is at 112 bpm, 1/16 notes. :)
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