Help needed with trying to cover something

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Gps
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Re: Help needed with trying to cover something

Post by Gps »

Thats probalby it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vox_humana

The Vox humana (Latin for "human voice"; also "voz humana" in Spanish and Portuguese, "voix humaine" in French and "voce umana" in Italian, although "voce umana" is also a term for a celeste stop, q.v.) is a short-resonator reed stop on the pipe organ, so named because of its supposed resemblance to the human voice.[1]

I think its a preset on the polymoog, but I am not sure on that.

First preset he uses already seems to go into fade to grey area. 50sec in
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_ijprswhOA

Modulation... He says modulation. :P

Part two kinda proofs its the polymoog, the guy even says vox humana when he using a extra box plugged into the polymoog.

4m10.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLA7JRsYfuc&t=252s
Gps
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Re: Help needed with trying to cover something

Post by Gps »

More proof its the polymoog.

2m50.
Preset number 7, Vox Humada, but something else caught my eye. Watch those foot pedals. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAGwD4urjq8
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Re: Help needed with trying to cover something

Post by Gps »

After a short break, I am working on the cover again.

I had the bassline played by 3 zasfx, and I deleted one.
Also removed E.Q. plugins from these.

The strings were done by 4 synths, and I deleted one of those too. (might delete more)

This already helped making my cover sounding a bit more clear, lessmuddy.


I will probably start over with the mixing, and see if I can get a sound that make me happy for the vox humamana part.

One big question for me, is to use or not to use the polymoog VST.

I think it suffers from something allot of VST have. It sounds good or good enough, for some notes , but not so much if you go higher or lower in the scale.

Now in some part this vst totally gets on my nerves instead of giving me the fade to grey feel.
Its possible I am just to high in the scale anyway compared to the original.

Gonna cut a part from the mp3 I have, then in lmms see how well I can sync this part.

Then I won't have to start the mp3 from the start each time.

Lmms can play a soundfile, but you can't scroll in it.

Sometimes wonder if I should get a better daw, from watching vids of people with cubase and albeton, I know some daw can sync sound files.

I do not wanna go to windows though for music production.

Maybe I should give ardour another change, although I know I will miss the Fruity loops / LMMS screen layout.

From this forum I know reaper is an option, so is bitwig, if we go for paid (closed) software.

Reaper on my os, opensuse tumbleweed:
https://www.ernstrenner.com/best-daw-fo ... umbleweed/

Bitwig already present me with a challenge, because for Linux they offer a .deb file.

My Linux does not do deb. its not Debian based. I could try Alien.

On the other hand I would prefer to stay with LMMS. That it can't record is for my use case totally not relevant.
I can't really play life nor sing in tune. LMMS can record the midi data from my keystation mini 32, which is enough for me.

LMMS could use more and better plug-ins though. Looking forward to version 1.3

Some of it:
Adds support for MIDI CC events inside LMMS (#5581, #5824)
Lv2: Fix overflow and enum visualization (#5811)
Fix too small height of the carla instrument window (#5829)
Fix compile error with GCC 6 (#5831)
Implement Lv2 Options (#5761)
Gps
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Re: Help needed with trying to cover something

Post by Gps »

Found some more problems.

Looked at some midi files because I had this nagging feeling, I was doing something wrong.

It's the progression of the strings, I have them often do as the bassline.

Further more I wonder If I mixed up tracks. :lol:

Some cleaning up and sorting out to do.
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Re: Help needed with trying to cover something

Post by Gps »

I am a bit stuck right now.

Wondering if I should watch more Chord progression tutorials and or read more on chords, or maybe just stop thinking about it, and do what the midi file does.

This all started because somebody on the LMMS forum also covered fade to grey, trying to help me, and although my bassline is better, his track sounds much more like the original.

I have finally figured out why. The chord progression of the strings in my cover is why.

The best solution might to listen to the original, and make notes with time stamps.

The problem is that something is confusing me. I have in my cover a chord progression that sounds to me it belongs 100% in fade to grey, yet all midi files I see do it different.

I even had people commenting on my cover, that I should add some of my own.

Could it be I made something that sounds right, but simply is not, from a cover point of view. :lol:

I know a bit about how to mess with chords, to stay in scale, but what is happening in fade to grey is new to me.
This progression make me look like this: :shock:

I am sure I can learn a lot from this though, that's why I want to understand better what is going on.
Gonna have another look at the file send to me. (about the vid were chris payne explains how he started fade to grey)

Lets see what chord progression that has. (again)

Also gonna watch that vid again, and listen at what chris says. At one point I think he mentions the chord progression.
There is an A, F and G in it. at least :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtP5jfRhxJc

The part his right hand playes is were I have messed up.

Will get it sorted :)
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Re: Help needed with trying to cover something

Post by Gps »

A bit off topic, but I like to thank rghvdberg.

He put me on the right track, on how to get funky. :D


Been googling groove quantization, and got some explaining from a LMMS friend.
I also asked for this to be added to LMMS. (this does not mean it will get added)

This has been bugging me from almost the first time I started creating music on the PC.

I like Funk (funk Disco) but failed horrible every time I tried. Now I am starting to see the light on why.

A computer has 100% perfect timing, and that is exactly what is not happening in funk.
Notes being played a tad too late and maybe even a tad too early.

So will have to do a lot of trying, with the LMMS grid set to 1/192.
I already know if you make two tracks in LMMS, were one is panned to the left and the second one panned to the right but all notes slightly moved, gives a wider stereo effect.
Around 4/192 you start to hear two notes are being played, so we need to stay below this. :D
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Re: Help needed with trying to cover something

Post by Gps »

Progress with the help of google.

I googled what chord is C E A

It said its a mayor chord (and some more), But I then dove into LMMS, and put in mayor chord.
Then moved lowest note 1 octave up, and boom, I had the chord how its used in Fade To Grey.

This might be child play to most here, but I am very happy, that I now understand this chord.

Is moving the bottom note one octave up, the first inversion ?

I remember struggling to make a chord progression, struggling because it never sounded like I had in mind.

The more I understand chords, the more I get this feeling to ignore all theory, and just put in notes that sound nice together.
Who cares if its minor or mayor and or diminished.
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Re: Help needed with trying to cover something

Post by Gps »

Baby steps, but first 1min20, is fixed.

I moved the mp3 in the piano roll, so the strings part starts at the same time as the original.

I have now CEA, CEG, DFA, CDA, CEG, CEA

Although I am not 100% happy about how it sounds, the strings now at least go up and down in the same rhythm as the original.

It feels almost like starting over but I finally understand what I am doing again.

In the midi file, there are two tracks, one is the strings, the other one is the note slide.

I had merged those, and although this is possibly, it was not the way I was doing it.
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Re: Help needed with trying to cover something

Post by Gps »

Choices choices, too many choices.

I might gonna change that string part again.

Looked at another you tube vid and there is a difference, in this version the strings do change every time the bassline changes.

Another difference this string part uses 4 notes instead of 3 and it uses different notes in some places.

Right now I have CEG into DFA, and my ears are not happy. It is in tune, but I don't like it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_chuVOZxNs
There is another thing different, and this would change the transition I don't like.

Maybe one day I will finish this? Gonna listen again to the original, and see if i can fix this transition.

On the bright site, I am in tune with the original, so maybe I should stop to worry about this part. :)
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Re: Help needed with trying to cover something

Post by Gps »

I am happy again, it starts to sound right.

I deleted all note slides, but I know exactly were they should be. There is already a note there, but not yet the automation.
I had to do some untangling first though. ( or should I say, clean up the mess I created ? )
Deleted a track, made a new one.
Replaced the chord progression of the strings in a few tracks

Then after some thinking and listening, I decided to let it be as it is now. It's in tune, and plays well along with the original.


I am not sure that poly moog vst is gonna stay. I had it also play the strings parts, and that was not a good idea.
Now it only plays, the part that goes down. (along with 2 zadsfx instances and synth1)

Synth1 replaces for now, the part were the KVR forum helped. I still need to do that, but first wanted to clean up.


Made it to 1min 40 and that part is almost there, except for the drums. I can see the end of this again although a lot of work left, but that should also involve a lot of copy paste. :)

The kick drum is great, my hats are oke, but don't have the pattern of the original yet. :)
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Re: Help needed with trying to cover something

Post by Gps »

Found another problem.
I am gonna stop looking at midi files and just use my ears.
I think I now have 5 or 6 files, all close but no cigar when compared to the original. Because of all the time already spend on it, I think I know the notes used from the top of my head.


Today I listened to my bass-line and the original.
After 40 sec, my bassline goes out of tune, it´s when the guy starts to sing (one man on a lonely platform)

That part is giving me so much trouble. I fixed the strings by listening to the original, so I should be able to do this with the bass line too.
It's one of those things I have been putting off, because what is happening note wise is more then my simple music (edm) brain can handle.

Two different tracks playing sometimes the same base note and sometimes not.
On the bright site, as I said before, I learn a lot from this.
(probably also that I should work more organized)
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Loki Harfagr
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Re: Help needed with trying to cover something

Post by Loki Harfagr »

Gps wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:06 am Found another problem.
...
Today I listened to my bass-line and the original.
After 40 sec, my bassline goes out of tune, it´s when the guy starts to sing (one man on a lonely platform)
You mean when it goes from the [Am C Em] loop section to its 4th [Dm F Am]?
But it seemed some posts ago that you already had it clear and neat (or was it rghvdberg)?
That part is giving me so much trouble. I fixed the strings by listening to the original, so I should be able to do this with the bass line too.
It's one of those things I have been putting off, because what is happening note wise is more then my simple music (edm) brain can handle.

Two different tracks playing sometimes the same base note and sometimes not.
On the bright site, as I said before, I learn a lot from this.
(probably also that I should work more organized)
Hopefully EDM is not limited to "one chord=>onenote", even Black Sabbath or JMJarre stopped doing that after their first gigs ;)
Hold on and carry on steady, the idea is to have fun at it and enjoy to remake/remodel it, cheer up :)
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Re: Help needed with trying to cover something

Post by Gps »

The biggest problem is me looking at different midi files, and then getting confused.
Because I know already all the notes used, I should just ignore the midi files from now on.


The part rvdberg helped me with is already in my cover. :)

I have a 7 min piece, but it needs some fine tuning and correcting.

And about Jean Michel Jarre and such.

When I released my first track, people asked if I was tone deaf, because it was out of tune.
Back then I did hear it did not sound great, but I was to some extent tone deaf.

There are 2 types of tone dead though. With the first one you can forget about ever creating music.
The second one, the one I had, comes from no experience with making or playing music. Scales ? What are scales ?
My ears needed training.

The LMMS forum helped me, and I started with the basics. Bassline plays an F every other tracks plays an F too.
This helped me to stay in tune, and after a month of 6 suddenly it went pop, in my brain.
I started to hear if notes were in tune or not. I even tried a classical waltz, and noticed a mistake when listening to it.
I was able to fix this by ear.

Now I am trying to get away from every track playing the same note. That's why I put so much effort in this piece, and am trying to understand the chords.
Had I just used the notes from a midi file, I probably would have been done weeks ago.
But from just copying notes, I don't learn anything.

It can be frustrating, but I do have fun. Every small step forward is a success. :)
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Re: Help needed with trying to cover something

Post by Gps »

Loki Harfagr wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:34 am
You mean when it goes from the [Am C Em] loop section to its 4th [Dm F Am]?
But it seemed some posts ago that you already had it clear and neat (or was it rghvdberg)?
Yes exactly at that point. I thought the bass line was doing CEA throughout the track, but something else is happening when he sings.

Strings go CEA, CEG, ( then when he sings, its DFA, CDA, those are in tune with the original.

Bassline CEA, goes wrong when the strings go DFA, CDA

I will get it sorted though :)
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Re: Help needed with trying to cover something

Post by Gps »

Bassline goes D D F A
strings: DFA, DFA, CEA,CEA

We have a winner, I am in tune with the original. Made it to almost 2 min into the track.

There was also a slight mistake with the strings.

Now need to check the rest of the track, and have a look at the drums.

Then make the note slights, and see if I can do as suggested by the kvr forum.

Portamento and automating the cut off frequency of a filter for the mau mau.
That's gonna be another challenge. :P
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