The state of Linux DAWs in 2021?

Support & discussion regarding DAWs and MIDI sequencers.

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Kott
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Re: The state of Linux DAWs in 2021?

Post by Kott »

chaocrator wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:12 pm Tracktion Waveform (free)?
at first glance, it worked, and i even liked it. it has quite a lot of handy features. i liked the interface too.
but what i did not like is that MIDI sync turned to be lagging and jittering AF.
It has the options for midi sync in Settings - MIDI Devices, which almost always helps :

1. Use MIDI Driver for MIDI Timing
2. Time Adjust
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Re: The state of Linux DAWs in 2021?

Post by chaocrator »

Kott wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:55 am
It has the options for midi sync in Settings - MIDI Devices, which almost always helps :

1. Use MIDI Driver for MIDI Timing
2. Time Adjust
in Waveform 11 MIDI driver option is in advanced settings.
however, did not help me.
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Re: The state of Linux DAWs in 2021?

Post by Gps »

sunrat wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 12:46 am
Gps wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:44 pm Was that the latest LMMS, 1.2.2 ?
Most distros seem to be be stuck at 1.3.

It's one reason why there is now an appimage version of LMMS.
1.3 is more than 1.2.2. :| Probably you meant 1.1.3
At LMMS website, stable version is 1.2.2 and 1.3 is a nightly alpha version. Debian testing and sid have 1.2.2

I prefer to avoid containerised applications except for demo purposes. Appimage is the least worst, but has its own problems. Snap and flatpak are diseases on Linux.
You are right as in 1.2.2 being the one we want, and 1.1.3 being the old version.

I am a long time member of the LMMS forum, and still about every week somebody post a problem with LMMS.
On Linux it not having vst support, and on windows and Linux, them using an old version.

On Linux allot of wine related issues. The part I don't get I never had a problem with wine and LMMS on openSUSE.

The first time you start LMMS, after installation or after a wine update, you should see some wine set up done, when you try to load a vst.

Maybe allot of people cancel this ?

On openSUSE I have nothing to complain, although I will admit there were problems in the past.

I love the current LMMS package builder of openSUSE, he compiles Carla and LMMS for us (and some more)

I saw him filing a bug report at the LMMS github and at the wine HQ. 8)
Some dependency issue.

I know an appimage file is not the Linux way, we should install software though our repositories.
Still I like it, one file for all distro I know.

Linus Torvalds seems to like the appimage solution. It does solve some problems of differences between distro's.

An appimage file contains all the libs the program needs.
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Re: The state of Linux DAWs in 2021?

Post by sysrqer »

chaocrator wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:12 pm oh, i encountered this thread in the right moment, because i spent last weekend choosing a Linux DAW, and have some rants^W impressions.
Any reason you didn't try Reaper? It sounds like you don't necessarily need it to be open source so it sounds like it would be a good candidate for you, especially since LV2 support was recently added. It can have a steep learning curve but it's very powerful and you can make it pretty much whatever you want it to be in terms of workflow, I don't think there are any DAWs on any platform that have this level of flexibility.
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Re: The state of Linux DAWs in 2021?

Post by tavasti »

chaocrator wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:12 pm of course, i thought hundreds of times while doing my DAW research — there's windoze with ableton where all these problems just don't exist.
but i don't like windoze, and i'm willing to put some time and effort to be free of it.
Did you try Ableton in Linux? For quick look, at least Live 10 Lite looks like working. Haven't used it really, so can't say what are problems.

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Re: The state of Linux DAWs in 2021?

Post by chaocrator »

sysrqer wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:09 pm Any reason you didn't try Reaper?
Reaper is paid. not expensive, but not that dirt cheap as Mixbus on the sales as well. (i bought mine for $19).
so i would try it if/when i completely run out of free/cheaper options.

anyway, i decided to stick with MusE 4 for now, because it does all needed jobs well, and because it has really good tools for working with hardware equipment.
updated UI of upcoming v4.0 is also nice.
so, MusE is jack of all trades for me (except for mixing jobs that i'll do with Mixbus anyway).
tavasti wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:54 pm Did you try Ableton in Linux? For quick look, at least Live 10 Lite looks like working. Haven't used it really, so can't say what are problems.
not yet.
regardless of my mixed attitude to Ableton, using it in Linux is running a foreign software via some layer inbetween, and i'm very suspicious about this approach.
this might work well enough if i just wanted to use it as particular DAW, but my workflow involves a lot of communication with external synths/grooveboxes, and extra layer in this communication sounds like asking for obscure MIDI troubles to me.
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Re: The state of Linux DAWs in 2021?

Post by sysrqer »

chaocrator wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 3:09 pm
sysrqer wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:09 pm Any reason you didn't try Reaper?
Reaper is paid. not expensive, but not that dirt cheap as Mixbus on the sales as well. (i bought mine for $19).
so i would try it if/when i completely run out of free/cheaper options.
It's not entirely true. You can certainly use Reaper for as long as you want without paying any money, the only difference between paying for it and not paying is waiting 5 seconds to press OK. I've been using for for about three years now and haven't purchased it.
Fair enough though, was just curious.
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Re: The state of Linux DAWs in 2021?

Post by JamesPeters »

sysrqer wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 3:12 pm It's not entirely true. You can certainly use Reaper for as long as you want without paying any money, the only difference between paying for it and not paying is waiting 5 seconds to press OK. I've been using for for about three years now and haven't purchased it.
Ok let's not go there lol. The terms of Reaper's license couldn't be more clearly stated.

Yes it will work indefinitely, but you're supposed to pay for your license beyond the stated demo period. The reason it doesn't stop working is effectively an infinite "grace period" for circumstances such as: you need to finish a project but misplaced your license (etc.) The extra nag after the demo period has expired is basically the developers rolling their eyes at you. :)

I also took advantage of Reaper's demo period more than I should've. I tested it for about a year before I paid for a license. (The fact I hardly did any work in it, I consider that irrelevant.) My excuse was having come from Cubase and Sonar purchases, and feeling burned by buggy DAWs (only to be much later updated with fixes with *paid* updates...ugh...), I was reluctant to purchase another DAW until I knew it was stable.

What you choose to do isn't my business, but please don't spread the idea that Reaper should be used for free indefinitely. I'd like to see Reaper's developers get support. If it weren't for Reaper I wouldn't have switched to Linux. Sorry but no other DAW in Linux comes remotely close to its capability and flexibility. No disrespect meant to other DAWs in Linux either. From what I understand most of their development is done by volunteers, so I wouldn't expect their development to be as fast. Plus whatever works for a person, whatever covers their needs/wants, that's what they should use. I'm not saying Reaper should be everyone's choice.

One thing people might want to know about Reaper's license is its duration. It's for up to two full versions (depending on when you purchase a license). So a license purchased now (version 6.25) lasts through version 7.99. New "full versions" of Reaper are *not* released every year (or other abitrary period of time) for the sake of a cash grab. If you look at the changelog (see the "download old versions" link at the bottom of their site), you'll notice that each "full version" can last for up to 4 years with incremental updates. A fair number of these incremental updates include major features, too (things that other DAWs make you pay for "full version" updates, Reaper will just add at version 5.74 or whatever their development schedule is able to release a new feature). My last license purchase covered a duration of 8 years for the $60. Even just for bugfixes I'd have been glad to pay that license fee. The amount of features added in the meantime (and free extensions and plugins made by third parties for Reaper) added another huge layer onto it. Most of my favorite plugins are Reaper plugins.
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Re: The state of Linux DAWs in 2021?

Post by Fmajor7add9 »

chaocrator wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 3:09 pm
tavasti wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:54 pm Did you try Ableton in Linux? For quick look, at least Live 10 Lite looks like working. Haven't used it really, so can't say what are problems.
not yet.
regardless of my mixed attitude to Ableton, using it in Linux is running a foreign software via some layer inbetween, and i'm very suspicious about this approach.
this might work well enough if i just wanted to use it as particular DAW, but my workflow involves a lot of communication with external synths/grooveboxes, and extra layer in this communication sounds like asking for obscure MIDI troubles to me.
almost OT, slightly, pondering 2 workarounds:
#1
A muscle host machine running both Linux DAW and virtualizing Win or MacOS with Ableton Live with audio running below the hypervisor, on the same bare metal as Linux (pci passthrough audio at DuckDuckGo)
#2
a 2nd machine running Ableton Live. My old celeron ultrabook weakling can still manage some 6-8-10 ableton tracks of their native synths and drums. With a decent hardware controller no need for VNC remote control from Linux.

Either method needs to be cabled or synced up (netjack/netmidi/ableton link/etc.) to the Linux host.
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Re: The state of Linux DAWs in 2021?

Post by chaocrator »

the only passthrought i can get on my laptops is USB passthrough.
and even that was not completely glitch-free in the past, not sure how things improved though.
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Re: The state of Linux DAWs in 2021?

Post by sysrqer »

JamesPeters wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:00 pm

Ok let's not go there lol.

It looks like you already did. The general consensus on the reaper forum is that Justin isn't too concerned about this and made the pop-up message as an incentive for people to contribute to it but didn't want to make it unusable for people who can't pay for it. He made $80 million selling winamp and Reaper is clearly not a big cash grab.

But of course, if you can pay for it then it is worth every penny and you should.
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Re: The state of Linux DAWs in 2021?

Post by tavasti »

JamesPeters wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:00 pm Yes it will work indefinitely, but you're supposed to pay for your license beyond the stated demo period. The reason it doesn't stop working is effectively an infinite "grace period" for circumstances such as: you need to finish a project but misplaced your license (etc.) The extra nag after the demo period has expired is basically the developers rolling their eyes at you. :)
I think they have realistic view to how things work. If people want to use software without paying, there is cracked versions available in the net.

This way all people can use Reaper, and more people use it, more people will recommend it, and at the end of the line more it will sell. Those people who don't want/cant pay won't pay in any case.

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Re: The state of Linux DAWs in 2021?

Post by JamesPeters »

sysrqer wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 10:58 am The general consensus on the reaper forum is that Justin isn't too concerned about this
General consensus isn't how this works, even if you were right. You do realize he's not the only developer, right? I assume more money goes to the other developer, and possibly anyone else contracted to help from time to time (theming, documentation, videos). Plus apparently there are costs involved with certain aspects of the program, licensing of certain components.

I'd say if anything Justin has a realistic view about this. For instance he knows that there are people like you who will justify not paying for it, and he's willing to let it be. But he has also been quite clear that he doesn't like when people say that things that you did, telling people "Reaper is free", or even "if you have the money, then pay for it". Maybe you haven't been on the Reaper forums as much as I have, so maybe you haven't seen these conversations.

He would rather not have the program be restrictive, and have problems dealing with copy protection. There are costs for having copy protection, and potential problems to manage.
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Re: The state of Linux DAWs in 2021?

Post by Death »

Does anyone have any nice screenshots or videos of MusE v4? I tried MusE recently and the combination of finding it extremely difficult to figure out how to use and the look of the interface just put me off. I know I'm not done with it though as it definitely needs more of a chance. I want to give it another shot once this new version hits the Manjaro repos :)
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Re: The state of Linux DAWs in 2021?

Post by oscillator »

Death wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:53 am Does anyone have any nice screenshots or videos of MusE v4? I tried MusE recently and the combination of finding it extremely difficult to figure out how to use and the look of the interface just put me off. I know I'm not done with it though as it definitely needs more of a chance. I want to give it another shot once this new version hits the Manjaro repos :)
Here is a screenshot of Muse4.0 -- released today! (viewtopic.php?f=61&t=23127)
muse4.jpg
muse4.jpg (240.43 KiB) Viewed 5997 times
I think it is great in every respect -- and I make different kinds of music with it (both sequenced with softsynths and more acoustic stuff). The new tabbed interface is a great workflow improvement.

The wiki (https://github.com/muse-sequencer/muse/wiki) has also been greatly improved!

MusE DAW running on Debian 11 Testing/XFCE4.
https://oscillator.se/musik

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