The state of Linux DAWs in 2021?

Support & discussion regarding DAWs and MIDI sequencers.

Moderators: MattKingUSA, khz

Gps
Established Member
Posts: 1136
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:09 pm
Has thanked: 331 times
Been thanked: 112 times

Re: The state of Linux DAWs in 2021?

Post by Gps »

Basslint wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:11 pm Hi, as far I can tell you, since you already know about Zrythm, I am not sure new DAWs with a long-term vision have been released.

An up-and-coming program is Valhalla tracker (https://github.com/rdybka/vht). It is more of a modern tracker than a DAW, in line with programs like Tutka.

Ardour has greatly improved and now has VST3 support.

LMMS is finally getting LV2 support in version 1.3.0.

The developers of MusE this year have done a lot of great work, version 4 is very close.
I found on github, that LMMS is also gonna get swing. ( not sure if it will be in 1.3) 8)

https://github.com/LMMS/lmms/issues/1091

https://github.com/LMMS/lmms/pull/4232

They are also working on 64 bit vst support on Linux.
User avatar
bluebell
Established Member
Posts: 1909
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:44 am
Location: Saarland, Germany
Has thanked: 111 times
Been thanked: 116 times

Re: The state of Linux DAWs in 2021?

Post by bluebell »

Death wrote: Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:41 am * If you edit a pattern, every copy of it will receive the same edit (Something no other DAW I've used does! Although it's possible LMMS does but I haven't used it lately). If you want to edit a pattern so that only that copy of it receives the edit, you just click on the top left corner of the pattern and choose to make it unique first so it becomes a new pattern. Then when you edit that pattern, any copy of it will receive the same edit. This setup saves you a hell of a lot of delting patterns and then copy & pasting it again with the changes!
Qtractor does this with copied clips. To exclude a copy from this you can "unlink" it.

Linux – MOTU UltraLite AVB – Qtractor – http://suedwestlicht.saar.de/

Death
Established Member
Posts: 372
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 1:43 pm
Been thanked: 32 times

Re: The state of Linux DAWs in 2021?

Post by Death »

Gps wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 3:43 pm I found on github, that LMMS is also gonna get swing. ( not sure if it will be in 1.3) 8)

https://github.com/LMMS/lmms/issues/1091

https://github.com/LMMS/lmms/pull/4232

They are also working on 64 bit vst support on Linux.
Nice :)
bluebell wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:44 pm Qtractor does this with copied clips. To exclude a copy from this you can "unlink" it.
That's good to know :)
Death
Established Member
Posts: 372
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 1:43 pm
Been thanked: 32 times

Re: The state of Linux DAWs in 2021?

Post by Death »

Does anyone know much about Midi Group Tracks in Zrythm?
I'm struggling to find info about it but it looks like it might be of interest to me.
WforWoollyMammoth
Established Member
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:32 pm
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 16 times

Re: The state of Linux DAWs in 2021?

Post by WforWoollyMammoth »

I know the discussion has been heavily focused on the MIDI features of the FOSS daws, but... Zrythm seems promising! It's like Ardour meets Bitwig with a GUI that's like somewhere between NON DAW and... Vivaldi Browser?

I did some tests, and well, the CPU load was 6-7% higher than the other more mature DAWs, which doesn't make me think the project has been optimized yet, and obviously there's still a lot of room of development in other areas as well, but I'll definitely be having a look at this project on a regular basis. Beautiful, I'd love to be able to use it as my main DAW.
Death
Established Member
Posts: 372
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 1:43 pm
Been thanked: 32 times

Re: The state of Linux DAWs in 2021?

Post by Death »

Yeh Zrythm looks very promising. I tried a demo of it about a year ago and knew it'd be one to keep an eye on. I thought I'd give it a shot again the other night but the installation kept failing so I couldn't. I really want to know about it's Midi Group Tracks feature as I'm wondering if it's the thing that'll give me the flexibility I want.
User avatar
elcalen
Established Member
Posts: 114
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:39 pm
Location: Finland
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 12 times
Contact:

Re: The state of Linux DAWs in 2021?

Post by elcalen »

How are people finding Waveform these days? Seems like every time I check it out, it suffers from a lot of stability/performance issues...
Artist name Ben Enkindle. Making electronic music exclusively with Linux software.
Kott
Established Member
Posts: 818
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:55 am
Location: Vladivostok
Has thanked: 65 times
Been thanked: 122 times

Re: The state of Linux DAWs in 2021?

Post by Kott »

elcalen wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:39 am How are people finding Waveform these days? Seems like every time I check it out, it suffers from a lot of stability/performance issues...
11.2.4 beta is most stable for me, 11.2.18 has some new bugs
what issues did you see?
User avatar
elcalen
Established Member
Posts: 114
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:39 pm
Location: Finland
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 12 times
Contact:

Re: The state of Linux DAWs in 2021?

Post by elcalen »

Kott wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 9:02 am
elcalen wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:39 am How are people finding Waveform these days? Seems like every time I check it out, it suffers from a lot of stability/performance issues...
11.2.4 beta is most stable for me, 11.2.18 has some new bugs
what issues did you see?
I haven't spent a whole lot of time testing, to be fair. But last time I tried the stable version (this was like early last autumn, I think), it felt like a lot of plugins had compatibility issues. Wine plugins were especially bad (with or without sandboxing), but others had issues as well with freezing GUIs and crashes etc...

Edit: I briefly tested 11.2.4, and I'm encountering issues at least with some U-he plugins (seem to consistently crash when exiting, at least). Also, there's a weird crackling issue with lower sample rates...
Artist name Ben Enkindle. Making electronic music exclusively with Linux software.
Death
Established Member
Posts: 372
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 1:43 pm
Been thanked: 32 times

Re: The state of Linux DAWs in 2021?

Post by Death »

elcalen wrote: Thu Jan 28, 2021 9:14 am I briefly tested 11.2.4, and I'm encountering issues at least with some U-he plugins (seem to consistently crash when exiting, at least). Also, there's a weird crackling issue with lower sample rates...
How low are we talking just out of interest?

I haven't tried Waveform for a while. I think it was probably version 10 I tried last. Which things stand out to you as significant improvements in version 11, if any?

Although I like Waveform, each time I tried a new version I just felt like not much had been improved upon and it was still buggy. I also remember thinking that they're gonna have to do a bit more than this if they want me to keep buying this program every year. It has a lot of potential though which is why I do like to check in with it every now and then.
User avatar
elcalen
Established Member
Posts: 114
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:39 pm
Location: Finland
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 12 times
Contact:

Re: The state of Linux DAWs in 2021?

Post by elcalen »

Like I said, I haven't spent that much time testing, I really couldn't say how much it's improved over different versions. Also I'm only testing the free version.

This crackling thing is weird. I initially thought it was only on lower sample rates (44/48k), but with further testing now I'm not sure. Sometimes when I switch to a higher sample rate I don't hear it, sometimes I do... (This is with alsa, haven't tested jack.) I don't recall running into an issue like this the last time I checked Waveform out. I have acquired a new audio interface since then, a Behringer UMC204, I don't know if that can have anything to do with it. (The interface works fine with other software, though.) EDIT: yeah, OK, I tested with jack, and I think it works better...
Artist name Ben Enkindle. Making electronic music exclusively with Linux software.
Kott
Established Member
Posts: 818
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:55 am
Location: Vladivostok
Has thanked: 65 times
Been thanked: 122 times

Re: The state of Linux DAWs in 2021?

Post by Kott »

I haven't any problems with sound in Waveform (just don't forget to set the CPU to performance mode).
Most of issues - the plugins, yeah. But, somehow I learned do deal with it or the things became more stable really.

Though I have some wine-wrapped plugins for testing bridges, I don't use them in projects.

One of problem native plugins - is the .vst3 versions of u-he plugs, sometimes scaling is broken and you have do set plugin's size to 80%. Looks like it's a JUCE bug with u-he.vst3 (but Renoise is not affected). Maybe there are other plugs issues, but I can't name them exactly.
User avatar
chaocrator
Established Member
Posts: 313
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2015 8:11 pm
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine
Been thanked: 1 time
Contact:

Re: The state of Linux DAWs in 2021?

Post by chaocrator »

oh, i encountered this thread in the right moment, because i spent last weekend choosing a Linux DAW, and have some rants^W impressions.

of course, this all is about my particular workflow involving a lot of interactions with hardware. some 10–20 years ago everyone thought that such kind of workflow is going to die, so no need to optimize DAWs for this. but this did not happen.

so, i was away from this forum since my migration to completely hardware rig. however, i decided to use a DAW at some point, because DAW really helps when it comes to arrangements.
the idea was using some free or inexpensive DAW as a sequencer for external hardware while arranging things, taking advantage of timeline view, clips and all that stuff.
but in this workflow it must record MIDI from my hardware also, because i mainly write riffs and sketches when jamming, not when staring on omputer screen.

it started with Bitwig 8-track. Bitwig is slick, capable and rock solid. but suddenly i discovered it still has only half-implemented MIDI export. Bitwig exports notes, but not automation. even if it's explicitly CC automation that requires zero heuristics about converting it to CC messages. a major no-go.

i launched LMMS. it has no MIDI export at all.

i tried QTractor. for some reason QTractor randomly crashed. seems like it does not like some of installed plugins. so i decided not to waste my time and try again only if all other options won't work.

you might wonder where's Ardour. well, time for Ardour has come. i tried to cut through its settings, tried to refer to online manual – and miserably failed. i failed to keep it in sync with my hardware regardless of what was the master clock. i failed to record a single note from my hardware. i failed everything. it's way overcomplicated. nevermore.

after massive Ardour fail i did not even try to do the same with Mixbus, because Mixbus is Ardour-based, and the result was slightly predictable.

what else? ummmm … Tracktion Waveform (free)?
at first glance, it worked, and i even liked it. it has quite a lot of handy features. i liked the interface too.
but what i did not like is that MIDI sync turned to be lagging and jittering AF.

browsing through my audio applications menu while thinking what else to try, i encountered a totally forgotten artifact – oomidi-2012 that was available in KXStudio repository for a while. it was the build of Open Octave Studio that was discontinued in 2014. i installed it out of curiosity back in the days, launched once or twice and forgot about it.
and guess what? after 15 minutes everything worked like a charm. rock solid sync in both directions, recording CC automation with zero hassle, proper MIDI export.
i was impressed – wow, hardware integration can be done really well even in a FOSS DAW!

but relying on a discontinued software depending on obsolete QT4 was not what i really wanted.

so i thought: if Open Octave Studio once was initialy a fork of MusE, maybe MusE is capable to do the same?
i was suspicious about MusE, beause debian/ubuntu builds were just unusable for a long time, and because it still looks like late 90s – early 2000s Cubase.
and after some excessive menu- and window-diving i managed to set it up, and finally – it worked as good as its fork that did not survive.
latest version (4.0 pre-release) even has improved, almost modern look.
and instrument definitions. i love instument definitions.

so i decided to stick with MusE for now, uninstall QTractor / Ardour / LMMS, and keep Mixbus for what i bought it — mixing jobs exclusively.
that's my story.

of course, i thought hundreds of times while doing my DAW research — there's windoze with ableton where all these problems just don't exist.
but i don't like windoze, and i'm willing to put some time and effort to be free of it.
Gps
Established Member
Posts: 1136
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:09 pm
Has thanked: 331 times
Been thanked: 112 times

Re: The state of Linux DAWs in 2021?

Post by Gps »

Was that the latest LMMS, 1.2.2 ?

Most distros seem to be be stuck at 1.3.

It's one reason why there is now an appimage version of LMMS.

Confirmed to work on Ubuntu, Mint, Fedora, Arch, openSUSE and some more.
User avatar
sunrat
Established Member
Posts: 915
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:08 pm
Has thanked: 151 times
Been thanked: 242 times

Re: The state of Linux DAWs in 2021?

Post by sunrat »

Gps wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:44 pm Was that the latest LMMS, 1.2.2 ?
Most distros seem to be be stuck at 1.3.

It's one reason why there is now an appimage version of LMMS.
1.3 is more than 1.2.2. :| Probably you meant 1.1.3
At LMMS website, stable version is 1.2.2 and 1.3 is a nightly alpha version. Debian testing and sid have 1.2.2

I prefer to avoid containerised applications except for demo purposes. Appimage is the least worst, but has its own problems. Snap and flatpak are diseases on Linux.
Post Reply