First Linux DAW

Support & discussion regarding DAWs and MIDI sequencers.

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grooveman
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First Linux DAW

Post by grooveman »

Hello everyone.

I'm going to be building my first linux DAW, hopefully, this weekend. I know that there are some options out there like Ubuntu Studio, AV Linux and KXStudio live... but I'm still a little hazy on what is included in these.

I'm leaning toward just using the KX repositories, and was planning on using a Debian install as a base... But when I looked over the packages at included in KX studio (https://kx.studio/Repositories:Applications), I was surprised to see that Hydrogen was not among them. Bear in mind, I don't know much yet about all the packages available for recording purposes under linux, but I was aware of that one, and planned to get started with that, since I do not own a physical drum set. So, my concern is, that there may be other such essential packages not included that I'm not aware of yet.

Which leads me to believe that the KX maintainers are probably thinking "you can just download that through the normal package manager"... which may be right... but... that would influence my decision on what system to use as a base. Debian is very conservative about upgrading packages, and I would want the latest and greatest (or darn near). If this is the case, then I'd probably go with something like KDE Neon, or maybe Mint... something that keeps a more up-to-date general repository.

Is my above assumption correct? Or am I missing something here? Given that I'm interested in having contemporary recording technologies on this system, what advice would you have for a base OS? My system is pretty middle-of-the road... a 6th gen i5 with 16 Gig of ram.

Thanks!

G
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Re: First Linux DAW

Post by CrocoDuck »

grooveman wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:03 am But when I looked over the packages at included in KX studio (https://kx.studio/Repositories:Applications), I was surprised to see that Hydrogen was not among them.
I am not sure that page actually lists all available packages. I would browse the repos directly:

https://launchpad.net/~kxstudio-debian

Seems like hydrogen is there: https://launchpad.net/~kxstudio-debian/ ... buntu/apps, but seems to be version 0.9.7 (current is 1.0.1). I am not too sure how to properly browse the packages one the web as it is not evident to what package your apt query might resolve to.

I suggest you boot a live image on your system and test things before installing. If you can add the packages you need, and you are happy with the version, you can go ahead. This is how I would do it at least.

As for suggestions for a Debian based DAW, maybe it is best if you wait for some Debian user input (there are many on this forum, personally I use Arch).
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Re: First Linux DAW

Post by TAERSH »

I'm a little bit confused. :?

Isn't DAW used for the program to record/edit Audio and MIDI?
I understand DAW as for programs like Ardour, Qtractor, Reaper etc.pp.

By reading your topic I understand you're trying to build your first Audio/MIDI Recording Operating System.
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Re: First Linux DAW

Post by d.healey »

TAERSH wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:22 am I'm a little bit confused. :?

Isn't DAW used for the program to record/edit Audio and MIDI?
I understand DAW as for programs like Ardour, Qtractor, Reaper etc.pp.

By reading your topic I understand you're trying to build your first Audio/MIDI Recording Operating System.
Yes, DAW is (nowadays) used to refer to a software sequencer/editor. However the word "workstation" implies a mix of software and hardware, so I don't like the modern use of the term DAW.
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Re: First Linux DAW

Post by folderol »

KXstudio is a good package, but it is far from a complete system and follows the personal preferences of the packager. However, if a package exists both there, and on the main debian resource then the KX one is likely to be better tuned.
debian's packager (for the GUI) is synaptic. I don't know if KX has that installed by default, or if it expects you to get it via the base install.
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Re: First Linux DAW

Post by merlyn »

I'm old school and think of a DAW -- a digital audio workstation -- as hardware. I wonder when exactly Cubase or Ableton started describing themselves as DAWs.

On the issue of the latest and greatest software -- there are two main approaches. A series of infrequent, big updates like Debian or a rolling release like Arch. I have used Ubuntu in the past and I found that aiming at a middle ground where some software is updated can lead to dependency hell. That could have been due to user error :)

Both approaches work. Fire and forget, or constant updating. Latest doesn't always equal greatest.

I now use Arch, because I'm like that. Every bit of software on this machine I have installed. I tried out a few of everything to find what I like and often end up with the simplest version -- e.g. falling down from gedit through leafpad and ending up with vim.

So you could do the same thing with different distros. Rather than decide beforehand what you are going to do, you could try them out by having a multi-boot setup. I've got five Linuxes on this machine, but I only ever boot one, so that's the one for me.
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Re: First Linux DAW

Post by CrocoDuck »

TAERSH wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:22 am Isn't DAW used for the program to record/edit Audio and MIDI?
I often seen it used to describe an entire computer system dedicated to audio and music production, such os OP is describing. I think the term originated some decades ago to describe dedicated digital hardware system for audio recording and mixing, and now it describes software that sort of shares the same core functionality of those earlier hardware systems. I would argue that a finely tuned OS with a nice collection of packages is, in all effects, a DAW.
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Re: First Linux DAW

Post by TAERSH »

Thanks for the explanations.

I was used to use also Sequencer as for programs like Qtractor etc. But the more I read DAW when such program was in talk, it changed my understanding. However, my OS has some specific menu categories. All programs similar to Qtractor etc. are placed into category Sequencer.
So, by now I'm better informed and continue to use Sequencer for the programs.

Again thanks.
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Re: First Linux DAW

Post by GMaq »

grooveman wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:03 am Hello everyone.

I'm going to be building my first linux DAW, hopefully, this weekend. I know that there are some options out there like Ubuntu Studio, AV Linux and KXStudio live... but I'm still a little hazy on what is included in these.

I'm leaning toward just using the KX repositories, and was planning on using a Debian install as a base... But when I looked over the packages at included in KX studio (https://kx.studio/Repositories:Applications), I was surprised to see that Hydrogen was not among them. Bear in mind, I don't know much yet about all the packages available for recording purposes under linux, but I was aware of that one, and planned to get started with that, since I do not own a physical drum set. So, my concern is, that there may be other such essential packages not included that I'm not aware of yet.

Which leads me to believe that the KX maintainers are probably thinking "you can just download that through the normal package manager"... which may be right... but... that would influence my decision on what system to use as a base. Debian is very conservative about upgrading packages, and I would want the latest and greatest (or darn near). If this is the case, then I'd probably go with something like KDE Neon, or maybe Mint... something that keeps a more up-to-date general repository.

Is my above assumption correct? Or am I missing something here? Given that I'm interested in having contemporary recording technologies on this system, what advice would you have for a base OS? My system is pretty middle-of-the road... a 6th gen i5 with 16 Gig of ram.

Thanks!

G
Hi!

Just to clarify..

AV Linux is Debian with KXStudio Repositories + Custom RT Preempt Kernel+ a handful of custom Packages (like latest Hydrogen) that have fallen through the cracks or don't appear in any Repositories. In addition AV Linux has many Plugins including Commercial demos that are not available anywhere else in a Repo or Distro..

That said AV Linux is in transition right now to a better toolkit for Distribution provided by MX Linux. There will be an "AVL-MXE" Release in the not too distant future so if you're kicking tires by all means give the current AV Linux a boot to try and see what it's all about but I might suggest waiting a bit or at least expect that you will need to re-install.. Once AVL-MXE is complete it will be the only ISO being maintained moving forward..
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Re: First Linux DAW

Post by grooveman »

I appreciate everyone's input... but no one weighed in re: using KDE neon as my base (which is really an Ubuntu distro, bred to run an optimized and contemporary KDE environment). I used to use Mint for this, but they dropped KDE... I don't really care however, about the desktop environment for this purpose.

Perhaps no one has tried this yet.. I guess I'm just looking for a light-weight OS with a DE that will get out of the way when using Ardour et. al. Not sure if Neon will do this... I like KDE, but obviously keeping latency down is the most important thing, since I don't have great hardware to work with. I like the debian idea, because I know it is light weight... but the packages are no where near current... I could go to sid, but I don't want to mess with stability. I just want to spend my time making music... not tending to another PC (there is too much of that in m life!).

I have installed AV Linux... but it is upgrading it concerns me... especially after what GMaq pointed out. I don't want to get dug in, then have to start all over.

I'll guess there is probably no silver bullet for this. I"ll just choose one and get started. I was just hoping I could avoid any pitfalls known in the community.

Thanks again.

TAERSH wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:22 am I'm a little bit confused. :?

Isn't DAW used for the program to record/edit Audio and MIDI?
I understand DAW as for programs like Ardour, Qtractor, Reaper etc.pp.
DAW = Digital Audio Workstation. The sales people out there might choose to tell you that a piece of software is a workstation... just like they tried to tell us for years that a gigabyte is 1000 megs (before the GB and GiB distinction, which only muddies the waters for non-techies). People get sloppy with terminology, then it becomes the standard vernacular. But to me, it doesn't change anything. A workstation is a computer system, hardware + OS + software with a purpose that binds them. That's what I'm trying to build here. You are certainly welcome, however, to stick with the terminology that works for you :)
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Re: First Linux DAW

Post by tavasti »

grooveman wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:10 pm however, to stick with the terminology that works for you :)
In case you want to have some useful answers, I suggest using definitions that are commonly used.

Sure, you can have own opinions what something means. Just to give example, slum can be defined as 'too densely built for the comfort of living' and giving that definition real meaning: for me, that means everybody living in village, city or whatever where neighbors are nearer than 200 meters is slum. Poor people in Manhattan and Monaco slum. HTH :-P

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Re: First Linux DAW

Post by grooveman »

Not the same thing, but if that makes you happy, then go ahead stick with that.
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Re: First Linux DAW

Post by merlyn »

grooveman wrote:I just want to spend my time making music... not tending to another PC ...
That sounds like AV Linux. It's good that you've thought about upgrading ahead of having to do it. One thing you can do to make upgrading smoother is to create a separate partition for /home. Then when you upgrade you will keep all your settings.

Another thing you can do is clone your boot drive onto another drive. Then try out an upgrade. If you don't like the upgrade, make a mess of it or want to go back you can.

AV Linux also has an app that allows you to update Firefox and only Firefox.
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Re: First Linux DAW

Post by glowrak guy »

Making a separate /home partition will save you some configuration time
when trying multiple distro installs. In a new install, choose not to reformat /home.
Your .config, .vst, .lv2, .mozilla, .wine, Documents and Downloads folders,
among all the others, will be intact and ready for use in a new distro.

This might ease the transition between AVLinux versions, with plugin, app,
and gui configs etc kept, while the core of the OS is replaced normally.
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Re: First Linux DAW

Post by CrocoDuck »

grooveman wrote: Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:10 pm I appreciate everyone's input... but no one weighed in re: using KDE neon as my base (which is really an Ubuntu distro, bred to run an optimized and contemporary KDE environment). I used to use Mint for this, but they dropped KDE... I don't really care however, about the desktop environment for this purpose.

Perhaps no one has tried this yet.. I guess I'm just looking for a light-weight OS with a DE that will get out of the way when using Ardour et. al. Not sure if Neon will do this... I like KDE, but obviously keeping latency down is the most important thing, since I don't have great hardware to work with. I like the debian idea, because I know it is light weight... but the packages are no where near current... I could go to sid, but I don't want to mess with stability. I just want to spend my time making music... not tending to another PC (there is too much of that in m life!).
grooveman wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:03 am Which leads me to believe that the KX maintainers are probably thinking "you can just download that through the normal package manager"... which may be right... but... that would influence my decision on what system to use as a base. Debian is very conservative about upgrading packages, and I would want the latest and greatest (or darn near). If this is the case, then I'd probably go with something like KDE Neon, or maybe Mint... something that keeps a more up-to-date general repository.
There aren't strong arguments against KDE as far as I am aware. In fact, I do remember FalkTX (the main KXStudio developer) thinking of KDE as perfectly suitable for a DAW. I am myself using GNOME, which is not at all lightweight, and I am doing alright. In the past I played with window managers such as OpenBox. They are fine, but you might need to put some effort to install various utilities and configure them to have all little services you might want to have, including network applets or even taskbars. There are many distributions that come with the all the shiny toys already set up though, such as Bunsenlabs.

My advice essentially remains the same:
  • Figure out which distro you want to be your base. AV Linux and Debian are solid choices but I am sure KDE Neon can be one too. I think there is an user here that is doing just that. @sysrqer maybe?
  • Boot it live and give it a test ride before installing. Try to install the software you need. Can you get the stuff you need at the version you want? Does it work alright? Any dodgy functionality in the system? If so, can you find how to fix it online?
That what I would do. I do not think there is a way to predict how any combination of software and OS will fare on unknown hardware, or even known hardware to be fair, so I think things will only get clear when you try to do it. It's part of the fun, at least for me.
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