Setting up real-time organ playing

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AlexTheBassist
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Re: Setting up real-time organ playing

Postby AlexTheBassist » Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:42 am

zoco wrote:Edit it. Can do a lot.

Tried it; can't do much, in fact. The thing is, what changes more with “velocity” change is attack, not the “body” of sound. Try a real piano or Pianoteq to understand what I mean. Try a real bass with slap&pop and finger style: you'll notice that just the attack seriously impacts the overall timbre perception. Cut the attacks from both slapped and finger played bass notes, and you'll suddenly realize that those “very different” sounds are almost identical, except for first 20-30 ms. Heck, some people even think that I always play slap&pop when they don't see me or my hands on the instrument, while it's just forte fortissimo. Try real drums, for whatever's sake. You'll know a lot of new stuff in under a minute if you ever get to play a real thing. That's why most people prefer huge Kontakt libraries: there are literally tons of samples in them, and they resemble velocity the right way.
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CrocoDuck
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Re: Setting up real-time organ playing

Postby CrocoDuck » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:24 am

AlexTheBassist wrote:
zoco wrote:Edit it. Can do a lot.

Tried it; can't do much, in fact. The thing is, what changes more with “velocity” change is attack, not the “body” of sound. Try a real piano or Pianoteq to understand what I mean. Try a real bass with slap&pop and finger style: you'll notice that just the attack seriously impacts the overall timbre perception. Cut the attacks from both slapped and finger played bass notes, and you'll suddenly realize that those “very different” sounds are almost identical, except for first 20-30 ms. Heck, some people even think that I always play slap&pop when they don't see me or my hands on the instrument, while it's just forte fortissimo. Try real drums, for whatever's sake. You'll know a lot of new stuff in under a minute if you ever get to play a real thing. That's why most people prefer huge Kontakt libraries: there are literally tons of samples in them, and they resemble velocity the right way.


That's why I like physical models way better than any samples based instrument. I had an idea in the back of my mind to build a huge library of samples, but generated by a very accurate physical model of something, one of those too accurate to run in realtime (although pianoteq, and many other projects too, show that since a bunch of years you can have accurate models and realtime). I'll let you guys know if and when I get to try something.

As far as I know, Aeolus is the only open source physically modeled organ simulator. I am not sure about if it still actively maintained, though.
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zoco
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Re: Setting up real-time organ playing

Postby zoco » Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:47 pm

CrocoDuck wrote:
AlexTheBassist wrote:Try a real piano or Pianoteq to understand what I mean. Try a real bass with slap&pop and finger style: you'll notice that just the attack seriously impacts the overall timbre perception.


That's why I like physical models way better than any samples based instrument.

I totally agree. Said it in the blues harp topic too, that it is impossible to get a five notes sliding meanwhile breath and hands bended sound out of a sample behind keyboard. But a simple supporting notes tune on the background still is good to be done.

Thats why i generally use samples as supporting rhythm instruments. Hardly ever for solo instruments or it must be a simple instrument.
At the end i am pleased with it. With samples i can play an easy bass guitar behind a song which doesn't sound different then my/an non-professional simple played physical one. Same goes for drums and lots off other otherwise unreachable instrument sounds i gathered soundfonts for through the years. In a quality more than good enough.
With sometimes some structural tricks while thoughtful constructing and the usual edits on it mostly they sound even more up to total realistic and more then good enough for me. It needs some work but in my oppinion not more than physical instruments need. For me it does it but i can imagine for some not which is OK too.


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