Please help with software choices- getting discouraged.

[vorwart]

Hello everyone,

I've recently dusted of my guitars and wish to get back into writing & producing a little music.... and so the journey begins of learning about Linux audio. My basic set-up is an M-audio keystation for the midi controller & a Behringer U-phone for piping in the guitars directly.

What I require should be pretty straight forward and simple: I'd like to be able to build some midi rhythm tracks (say drums, piano/keyboards, etc.) and then record audio (real guitar & vocals) tracks on top of that, all while not losing the ability to easily modify aspects of the midi tracks.

But the more I learn, the more it seems I may have to invest in commercial software to accomplish this. Someone please tell me I am wrong here, and point me in the right direction.

So far, the closest thing I've found is Rosegarden, but it seems to work a bit unpredictably and the midi editing is buggy & fairl limited.
Ardour seems great, but is even more buggy and crashes often. Also, essentially you can only have 1 midi instrument (reasonable synth)....
LMMS doesn't record audio..... so on & so forth.

I'm aware that I could create and record my rhythm section on one program (say LMMS), then export to another program (say Audacity) for the live audio tracks. But for the purpose of being freely creative, i really want top have that all into one bundle: I often wish to change parts of a rhythm tract after the vocals are recorded. Is this possible with any of the currently available open-source software programs?

Maybe I just need more time with the programs I've tried, but so far it seems like it's easy to waste a great deal of time learning these programs only to find out they aren't capable of the end result that I am seeking. So, any thoughts, insight, advice and/or examples that you can toss my way will be greatly appreciated. And if you have similar production requirements, I'd love to learn what works for you.

Thanks in advance.

[sysrqer]

Ardour or qtractor would be my immediate suggestions.

essentially you can only have 1 midi instrument (reasonable synth)

You can have as many as you like, why do you say you can only have 1? Which version of ardour are you using and which distro? Something sounds wrong with your set up if ardour is that bad. I did have a similar problem with midi instruments in version 3 but version 4 seems to be pretty good in that respect now.

Aside from that qtractor can also do what you need, it's quite easy to use and has nice midi editing. You certainly don't need commercial software to do what you are asking for.

[vorwart]

Hi sysrqer,

Thanks for the quick reply. I guess it's version 3 (ardour3 on the command line to fire it up.) So it sounds like I'll need to learn how to upgrade that. My distro is Peach OSI with a low latency kernel.
I'll give Qtractor a go as well. Thanks.

[ssj71]

Also, essentially you can only have 1 midi instrument (reasonable synth)

Do you have other synths installed? Ardour only comes with that one which really is only meant as a placeholder. If you do have others you might need to point ardour at where to look for them. Also, ardour 3 has quite a few bugs that are fixed in ardour 4. Definitely upgrade.
Ardour is my personal favorite but qtractor has a lot of dedicated fans as well. Good luck!

[Aleks]

Ardour (or Qtractor) and I would not omit Hydrogen, for easiest possible creating of drum tracks. Then all the guitar simulations you have available in Linux, like Guitarix and Rakarrack being the best. Also, Linux Sampler, it also comes as a plugin that you can use inside Ardour, although you would still have to use Qsampler as a GUI to set the instruments. And then there are like thousands of plugins (LV2, VST, LADSPA) you can install.

P.S. You know you have to use JACK, right? It's the ASIO of the Linux world, although better.

[GMaq]

Ardour (or Qtractor) and I would not omit Hydrogen, for easiest possible creating of drum tracks. Then all the guitar simulations you have available in Linux, like Guitarix and Rakarrack being the best. Also, Linux Sampler, it also comes as a plugin that you can use inside Ardour, although you would still have to use Qsampler as a GUI to set the instruments. And then there are like thousands of plugins (LV2, VST, LADSPA) you can install.

P.S. You know you have to use JACK, right? It's the ASIO of the Linux world, although better.

Actually JACK is no longer mandatory for Ardour although it still has many benefits (ie locking transport with Hydrogen) It should be noted Ardour 4 can now be used directly with ALSA without JACK if desired..

[Aleks]

That's true, although if he wants to use amp sims, he'd have to use it. Also,in Ardour there is a percussion mode, so with DrMr installed, you can use all the Hydrogen kits in Ardour without using Hydrogen. But then again, Hydorgen's strength is in its pattern and song modes.

[vorwart]

As it sounds like Ardour4 is the way to go: I've just made a contribution, downloaded and installed Ardour4. Very limited time to play with it before heading off to work.

And yes, I am using Jack ..... figuring out the connections can be a real task - especially now with Ardour4. So it looks like I've got a bit of learning ahead of me. ...Stuff like; I see the input, but Ardour doesn't record it.... then I get that figured out and it records, but dead silence upon playback, Grrr! I'll eventually get it figured out, lol.

Thanks ssj71, - I've got FluidR3_GM.sf2 and GS soundfonts installed, but they don't show in Ardour. That is what you mean, right?

I have played with Hydrogen (love it), and plan to utilize that down the road.... after I get the basic operation of using Ardour down.

I really appreciate all the input from everyone. Even though this learning curve really sucks for me, I feel much better knowing there's a happy spot down the road if I stick with it.

[Aleks]

Although you didn't ask me, for soundfonts you have to use a sampler inside Ardour, like Qsynth, FluidSynth or Qsampler or something like that. You will have to search for plugins and samples, this forum is a good start, and then there are sites like these:

http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/apps/categor ... d_samplers
https://www.linuxsampler.org/instruments.html
http://linux-sound.org/plugins.html
http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/soundfont_collection

I would say that there is a learning curve in anything new that you start with, but once you get it, you might love it, or not....

Linux is great for recording music, but you can also record in Win or Mac. However, for learning music, I would say that nothing beats Linux, because you can play the guitar in real time, almost noise free, while watching you tube clips, reading pdf files etc. all in same time.

[ufug]

As someone who is both old and old school, and also a long-time Linux user who was perpetually discouraged by the similar issues of having an overabundance of dubious choices (as well as challenges getting my hardware sorted when I just wanted to get recording and not futzing), let me share what worked for me. YMMV.

1) Install Ubuntu and set up KXstudio.

2) Get the latest (v3) Harrison Mixbus. This is built on Ardour. It's cheap. It is super-stable and has a rebuilt mixing section with busses all set up for you and some very nice built-in EQ and compression. I like Ardour of course, but Mixbus is great for just getting to the music part of making music right away.

3) GO.

If you need drums, Hydrogen is the best thing since sliced bread. If you need MIDI and keys, there are a gazillion plugins that are available in KXstudio that work seamlessly in Mixbus.

Again, just one of many ways to go about it, but this was the most frustration-free way for me to just go in and get some songs done without too much thinking about the technical stuff/set-up.

[vorwart]

OK, I've made a little time to try to figure this out, but am nearly ready to fork out the $80.00 for Harrison Mixbus.... (which I appreciate the suggestion). At this rate, I'm not sure if that would even simplify things enough for me to get a grip on. But seriously, I would love to be able to get my head around this.... or maybe just get things working for now & understand it later.

I'm happy with the "instruments" that I have in Qsynth, which are /usr/share/sounds/sf2/FluidR3_GM.sf2. My hang up now is how to make them available in Ardour. Following the Ardour manual instructions for working with plugins and adding processors doesn't get me there - what am I missing?

Also, I tried this approach - http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=801548 and no luck, as I am unable to connect the Qsynth audio output to the Ardour track input in Patchage. It lights up, but the connection will not "stick" for some reason.

I hate to be this much of a pain, but seriously, it seems like these things could be a little less daunting to accomplish. I very much appreciate all of your comments (and patience).

[sysrqer]

There are a few approaches you can take with this. The easiest would be to install carla, load carla lv2 or vst inside ardour and load your soundfonts inside carla. That's it, no messing around with patching things, save the ardour session and it's all there next time, no need for session management.

[Eino]

I use a Allen & Heath ZED-10FX mixer with Audacity for live recording, and LMMS for putting it all together.
Here is a piece done with all sound samples made with Audacity and put together with LMMS.
Wife was on the guitar, and I played the Native American flute.
Wolfs Cry
When it comes to making music with fluid soundfonts LMMS also has that ability.

[Aleks]

I'm happy with the "instruments" that I have in Qsynth, which are /usr/share/sounds/sf2/FluidR3_GM.sf2. My hang up now is how to make them available in Ardour. Following the Ardour manual instructions for working with plugins and adding processors doesn't get me there - what am I missing?

I would say that your life in the Linux world would get much easier if you install the KXStudio repositories and then install the Cadence suite. You can use Ardour's audio and midi connections windows to make the connections. I prefer Claudia or Catia from the Cadence suite to Patchage, although I use that sometimes too.

Anyway, to use soundfonts in Ardour, try this;

1. In case you didn't do this already, in Ardour open View and check "Show Editor/Mixer"

2. Right click in the editor mixer ==> new plugin ==>plugin manager. In the manager search for fluidsynth and insert the plugin.

3. In the editor mixer double click the plugin (or right click on it and select "Edit"), and when fluidsynth opens, you can configure and use your soundfonts from there.

You can also use Carla as a LV2 plugin, or Linux Sampler and Qsampler.

[glowrak guy]

you can open qjackctl after ardour is running, and use it to make connections.
They will appear in the relevant ardour panels as you make them. This will aid
in translating the different terminology. And you won't have to drag things around,
as can be the case in patchage, and carla patchbays. Such dragging may be a benefit,
once you are familiar with their particular terminology, simplifying things for now
helps to begin making music sooner.

I would purchase mixbus -after- you can routinely record multiple tracks in ardour/qtractor etc
just to avoid adding a steeper learning curve, and needless frustration.
Cheers