[SOLVED] Bitwig is Recording Output instead of Input

[evanvale]

Hey guys and gals, I desperately need some linux audio ninjas to come to my rescue. I consider myself pretty decent at this stuff (I had bitwig set up perfectly on Linux Mint 17 before my other computer blew up) but this has been puzzling me for days.

My setup is as follows:
Linux Mint 17.1 MATE 64bit (fresh install)
jackd2 via qjackctl
Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD PCIe soundcard
Bitwig 1.1.6

My problem is this: Bitwig is recording the soundcard's output instead of the input. I've seen this listed in Windows as an input source called "What U Hear," and that's how it is behaving. Anyway, I know this is happening because 1) Bitwig is recording its own metronome. And it's not muffled like bleedthrough or anything; it's perfectly clear. Also, 2) If I disable monitoring, it doesn't record the sounds coming in through the input, but if I turn monitoring on, then it suddenly starts recording them, presumably because they become part of the output stream once I turn monitoring on.

I have fiddled with the settings in qjackctl, always being sure to roll back when something doesn't work. Jack doesn't seem to be working properly. Ticking the "monitoring" boxes in qjackctl doesn't provide audio monitoring, and I know it has worked previously with this same soundcard. Also the RT (Realtime) light on the dashboard of qjackctl doesn't stay on. It blinks on and off. This worked very easily (out of the box, if you will) with my last setup using Linux Mint 17 and the exact same soundcard.

Here is how Bitwig auto-routes when loaded. Seems pretty standard. I have also disconnected all of the "monitor"s but to no avail:

Screenshot-Connections - JACK Audio Connection Kit.png (77.87 KiB) Viewed 1068 times

Any help would be appreciated. This is a fresh linux install and I have made sure not to go down the rabbit hole chasing fixes, which is easy to do (for instance, I have not installed a thousand packages based on random turorials I found). I would like to learn a little bit about troubleshooting jack, but whenever you look up information, everyone is addressing specific problems, much like I am right now, so it's hard to learn where to start.

I first posted this to Bitwig's forums, but their userbase is not terribly linux-friendly to say the least.

Signed,
evanvale

[StudioDave]

My problem is this: Bitwig is recording the soundcard's output instead of the input. I've seen this listed in Windows as an input source called "What U Hear," and that's how it is behaving. Anyway, I know this is happening because 1) Bitwig is recording its own metronome. And it's not muffled like bleedthrough or anything; it's perfectly clear. Also, 2) If I disable monitoring, it doesn't record the sounds coming in through the input, but if I turn monitoring on, then it suddenly starts recording them, presumably because they become part of the output stream once I turn monitoring on.

Your screenshot indicates that all system output is being routed back to BW. Any tracks armed for recording will record that output. I think BW tracks initialize with all inputs enabled, so you might try disconnecting every input to BW, then reconnecting one by one to find out where the unwanted input is coming from. You might also be selective about the input per track, i.e. don't use the All Inputs selection.

I have fiddled with the settings in qjackctl, always being sure to roll back when something doesn't work. Jack doesn't seem to be working properly. Ticking the "monitoring" boxes in qjackctl doesn't provide audio monitoring, and I know it has worked previously with this same soundcard. Also the RT (Realtime) light on the dashboard of qjackctl doesn't stay on. It blinks on and off. This worked very easily (out of the box, if you will) with my last setup using Linux Mint 17 and the exact same soundcard.

The blinking RT is not a problem, you can disable it in QJackCtl's Setup/Display tab.

Sorry, I don't know that soundcard, not sure about its monitoring capabilities.

Any help would be appreciated. This is a fresh linux install and I have made sure not to go down the rabbit hole chasing fixes, which is easy to do (for instance, I have not installed a thousand packages based on random turorials I found). I would like to learn a little bit about troubleshooting jack, but whenever you look up information, everyone is addressing specific problems, much like I am right now, so it's hard to learn where to start.

An old article, perhaps still helpful:

http://linux-sound.org/knowing-jack.html

I first posted this to Bitwig's forums, but their userbase is not terribly linux-friendly to say the least.

If you mean the forums at KVR, I'm sorry you've not had a good experience there. Give me a shout-out there or PM me if you have problems with BW, I'll help as much I'm able.

Best,

dp

[evanvale]

If you mean the forums at KVR, I'm sorry you've not had a good experience there. Give me a shout-out there or PM me if you have problems with BW, I'll help as much I'm able.

Well it's certainly not that I've had a bad experience, but my problem wasn't solved and no one was speaking linuxspeak to me. That's all.

I was able to stop recording the output by going into alsamixer and turning down PCM on the "input/capture" side. I have since done a compelte re-install of Mint and am still having the exact same issues. I was able to stop recording the output by turning PCM down but I still can not record the input. I am beginning to think, after doing much reading, that the audio portion of my HDMI out is interfering with Jack. I am going to paste the results of some terminal commands in the hope that it will point someone in the right direction.

Output of cat /proc/asound/cards:

Code: Select all

 0 [XFi            ]: SB-XFi - Creative X-Fi
                      Creative X-Fi 20K2 SB1270
 1 [Tab            ]: USB-Audio - E-MU XMidi1X1 Tab
                      E-MU Systems,Inc. E-MU XMidi1X1 Tab at usb-0000:00:14.0-1, full speed
 2 [NVidia         ]: HDA-Intel - HDA NVidia
                      HDA NVidia at 0xf6080000 irq 17

Output of arecord -l:

Code: Select all

**** List of CAPTURE Hardware Devices ****
card 0: XFi [Creative X-Fi], device 0: ctxfi [Front/WaveIn]
  Subdevices: 1/1
  Subdevice #0: subdevice #0

It seems to me that the above codepaste should have more than one subdevice, as the soundcard has at least three inputs (mic, line/aux, spdif).

As of now, the only way I've been able to get monitoring is to install pavucontrol via apt-get, run it, find my input device, choose "Line In", and unmute the input. But this still does not help me record using Jack, which is not surprising considering the fact that Pulse and Jack do not play nice. I know I have been able to monitor using qjackctl with this soundcard before, but with my new motherboard, no dice. I also dug out some different cables and used a different input on my soundcard but was still not able to record. What I'd like to use are the RCA "line in" inputs on my soundcard as opposed to the 1/8" mic in, but at this point I'll take anything as it would be a step in the right direction.

For now I am not looking for an elegant fix, just something that will work. Maybe a jackd commandline entry? Anything to get me pointed in the right direction.

Your screenshot indicates that all system output is being routed back to BW. Any tracks armed for recording will record that output. I think BW tracks initialize with all inputs enabled, so you might try disconnecting every input to BW, then reconnecting one by one to find out where the unwanted input is coming from. You might also be selective about the input per track, i.e. don't use the All Inputs selection.

I would not say this is so. I would say the BW output is being routed to system output (aka the speakers). Right? Even when disconnecting everything and reconnecting the main outputs (only two connections), it was still recording the output until I muted the PCM Capture in alsamixer. I have disconnected everything and reconnected in nearly every possible combination to no avail. If you ask me, the problem in that "connections" screenshot that I posted above is that there are only two "capture"s listed, when there should be at least five. One for the mic input, two for the "line in" input, and two for the spdif input. I still cannot figure out where Jackd is getting its information from.

Regards,
evanvale

[evanvale]

Nevermind. Solved.

Despite my insistence otherwise, the problem was not with the Jack server. I had to get ALSA and Pulse set exactly right and the Sound Preferences app in Mint MATE would not let me do that. When I reinstalled using Linux Mint 17.1 Cinnamon, the Sound Preferences app in the menu was more robust and allowed me to choose Line In. I can now choose between hardware monitoring (alsamixer, turning Line In up) or software monitoring (within Bitwig).

I really do prefer the MATE desktop, but that version of Mint doesn't seem to have the same quality of implementation as the Cinnamon version.

So, to solve the fact that it was recording the output, I had to go into alsamixer and turn the PCM all the way down in the Capture portion of the mixer. And to solve the fact that I was not recording the input, I had to enable (and unmute) the Line In for capture in both ALSA and Pulse.

Cheers,
evanvale

[glowrak guy]

Thanks for the detailed followup! This will help many others in the googled future.
And not just with bitwig. I set up a mint 17 box recently, but haven't installed the bitwig demo yet.
Using E17 for gui. Stripped out all the non-audio things, and it's pretty fast.
Whenever I get some spare time, there is always a new bitwig release

[StudioDave]

Nevermind. Solved...

I was going to ask whether you were using PA.

Nothing against PulseAudio, I think it's fine for its purposes. Recording high-definition multitrack/multichannel audio/MIDI is not one of those purposes. I usually recommend removing it entirely, and it is not present on any of my systems.

As the glokguy says, it's good you found the solution, thanks for sharing your experience.

Best,

dp