Editing several MIDI tracks at the same place

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programLyrique
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Re: Editing several MIDI tracks at the same place

Postby programLyrique » Mon Sep 08, 2014 5:14 pm

Well, fair enough!(even if I have not been able to find the exact topic which had me think it was not easily possible).

no comment, design nor implementation status

So let's comment !!

The background sequence is the most straigthforward implementation of the idea (but it means you can't edit several tracks at the same time, only the one at the foreground).

I would select the clips in the main windows, using the selection mode -> clip tool, and when I would click on clip -> edit, the clip editor would open with the two MIDI tracks with the first one selected as the foreground.

You would have a selector to change the foreground track. And if you click on a MIDI event which is not in the foreground, the track it belongs to becomes the foreground track. In fact, the foreground is something useful to insert new notes, which are inserted in the foreground track.

unless someone steps in first ahead. no barrings on a opensource/free world yaknow?

I may try to implement that if I have time :)

I am also realizing I can't edit several clips which are on the same track in the same clip editor, so it may be an opportunity to improve that also!
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Re: Editing several MIDI tracks at the same place

Postby witchspace » Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:26 am

rncbc wrote:so, you didn't read the irony on that 6y+old post? no problem. qtractor model is one MIDI track, one MIDI channel, period. that's its design flaw (slanted here now and then on purpose). it won't change and it really it's in its blueprint design since dawn. ever.

I don't regard that as a flaw. "One track, one channel" makes sense. The other extreme would be "One track, one MIDI output" which is way too granular. Everything in-between seems difficult to use (as it involves extra commands to move channels over tracks ...).

The feature I'm thinking of would involve selecting multiple clips (possibly on multiple tracks) and editing them in the same piano roll view. Events from different tracks would be shown in the colors of that track. There would be a list/"palette" where it's possible to switch the current edited clip (clicking on an event in another clip could automatically switch to that one).

This wouldn't change the internal representation that different channels are still different tracks.

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rncbc
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Re: Editing several MIDI tracks at the same place

Postby rncbc » Wed Sep 10, 2014 3:43 pm

witchspace wrote:
rncbc wrote:so, you didn't read the irony on that 6y+old post? no problem. qtractor model is one MIDI track, one MIDI channel, period. that's its design flaw (slanted here now and then on purpose). it won't change and it really it's in its blueprint design since dawn. ever.

I don't regard that as a flaw. "One track, one channel" makes sense. The other extreme would be "One track, one MIDI output" which is way too granular. Everything in-between seems difficult to use (as it involves extra commands to move channels over tracks ...).


though, you can have more than one track for the same MIDI channel, that only really works for external instruments. besides, MIDI tracks converge to one MIDI output bus which equates to a MIDI output port or device, a conveyor of 1-16 MIDI channels. business as usual in MIDI world :).

as for internal (ie. plugin) instruments, the actual MIDI channel doesn't really matter much, so that the 1:1 rule means one MIDI track => one (any) MIDI channel => one MIDI instrument (plugin).

alas, if the plugin is inserted on a MIDI output bus then the rule is one MIDI track => one MIDI channel => one of possible 16 MIDI instruments aka. parts. in fact this is the same scenario for most external multi-timbral/part MIDI instruments out there, including qsynth/fluidsynth, zasfx, and the plethora of outboard h/w synths, sampler you name it. here the MIDI channel *is* the instrument selector address and is determinant.

witchspace wrote:The feature I'm thinking of would involve selecting multiple clips (possibly on multiple tracks) and editing them in the same piano roll view. Events from different tracks would be shown in the colors of that track. There would be a list/"palette" where it's possible to switch the current edited clip (clicking on an event in another clip could automatically switch to that one).

This wouldn't change the internal representation that different channels are still different tracks.


the idea, as i read from the ticket request, is about showing any or the same MIDI track content in the background (possibly with dimmed/transparent colors); a MIDI track content means all its clips and their respective events (provided they match the same view criteria); still, the only editable content shall be of the clip in question; showing anything else in the background is, yep, just for help and visual context.

so, i guess it's not quite the edit-all-and-any as you wanted. but hey, where did you stop trying to edit more than one clip anyway? you can have them all open for editing in piano-rolls all at the same time on screen. well, you'll surely eat up screen estate, no doubt, but, as an alleged french saying, one just doesn't make omelettes without breaking eggs :)

byee

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Re: Editing several MIDI tracks at the same place

Postby witchspace » Thu Sep 11, 2014 8:15 am

rncbc wrote:the idea, as i read from the ticket request, is about showing any or the same MIDI track content in the background (possibly with dimmed/transparent colors); a MIDI track content means all its clips and their respective events (provided they match the same view criteria); still, the only editable content shall be of the clip in question; showing anything else in the background is, yep, just for help and visual context.

That would be great!
so, i guess it's not quite the edit-all-and-any as you wanted. but hey, where did you stop trying to edit more than one clip anyway? you can have them all open for editing in piano-rolls all at the same time on screen. well, you'll surely eat up screen estate, no doubt, but, as an alleged french saying, one just doesn't make omelettes without breaking eggs :)

Well the problem for me isn't so much screen real-estate but mind real-estate :) Seeing the different parts in different windows makes it difficult for me to relate them. Having them in one overview would make it easier to see how they go together.

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Re: Editing several MIDI tracks at the same place

Postby GraysonPeddie » Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:58 am

witchspace wrote:Well the problem for me isn't so much screen real-estate but mind real-estate :) Seeing the different parts in different windows makes it difficult for me to relate them. Having them in one overview would make it easier to see how they go together.

Mine, too. Yeah, Mind real-estate!! :)
--Grayson Peddie

Music Interest: New Age w/ a mix of modern smooth jazz, light techno/trance & downtempo -- something Epcot Future World/Tomorrowland-flavored.

witchspace
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Re: Editing several MIDI tracks at the same place

Postby witchspace » Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:38 am

Made a little progress here (different colors are clips from different tracks).
Image
It's possible to open multiple clips in a editor. One if the 'main clip' which can currently be edited and is shown in the foreground, the rest is shown as context. Next up I want to make it possible to switch the current clip, for example with a combo box.

The non-active clips should be shaded, it's hard to distinguish them now.

This is still pretty unstable so not close to release.

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Re: Editing several MIDI tracks at the same place

Postby DoosC » Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:09 pm

witchspace wrote:This is still pretty unstable so not close to release.


But nonetheless exciting already ! :D
| DoosC |

caonoize
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Re: Editing several MIDI tracks at the same place

Postby caonoize » Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:15 pm

This is an exciting development. Could I perhaps suggest a set of tabs, so that one can select which part one is working with on in the fly? My application was recently breaking a midi track written in chords into several mono tracks, each to its own instrument. Maybe this is a bit special though, but if I record a poly sequence played from a keyboard, I might want to break it up into voices in the case I want to simulate different instrument per voice.

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Re: Editing several MIDI tracks at the same place

Postby windowsrefund » Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:56 pm

It is my opinion that Piano Roll should have no awareness of clips whatsoever. Clicking on a particular clip should simply be a means to get into Piano Roll which should then always display every midi event on the track. This thinking is even consistant with the "follow playahead" feature which is useless when Piano Roll is hard-filtered to only display data related to a single clip. Here's the scenario that proves my point: You have a 8 bar phrase made up of 4x 2 measure clips and you're looping... you click on a clip to enter piano roll and you can now work in that limited amount of space. Your follow playahead is kinda useless since you're just essentially following white space. You can't edit anything outside the 2 measures which means in order to do so, you have to break out of PR, go back select another clip... it's just gruntwork. Again, PR should be dumb and just display what's on the track. At most, MAYBE it (as a favor to the end user) could (or even should) highlight or make it clear in some way the range of the clip selected but that doesn't mean it should filter or limit the user's ability to edit.

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Re: Editing several MIDI tracks at the same place

Postby GraysonPeddie » Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:34 am

It's been so long that the thread had been resurrected from +4 years ago. Well anyway, there areuse-cases where I only want to see only the notes I'm working on in MusE Sequencer. Would be nice to have a checkbox that shows the entire track.
--Grayson Peddie

Music Interest: New Age w/ a mix of modern smooth jazz, light techno/trance & downtempo -- something Epcot Future World/Tomorrowland-flavored.

spamatica
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Re: Editing several MIDI tracks at the same place

Postby spamatica » Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:54 pm

GraysonPeddie wrote:It's been so long that the thread had been resurrected from +4 years ago. Well anyway, there areuse-cases where I only want to see only the notes I'm working on in MusE Sequencer. Would be nice to have a checkbox that shows the entire track.

Not a bad idea, do make a feature request to help us keep track.
In the meantime a workaround is to shift-click a part on the track to select all, and then use shortcut Ctrl+E to open the pianoroll with all the selected parts.

/Robert

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Re: Editing several MIDI tracks at the same place

Postby windowsrefund » Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:08 pm

I thought we were talking about Qtractor in this thread?

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Re: Editing several MIDI tracks at the same place

Postby rncbc » Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:01 pm

Good news!

As of today the 'xghost' branch has been merged into 'master', cf. qtractor-0.9.7.9git.3a9b96...

That meaning there's a brand new View > Ghost Track menu in MIDI clip editor (aka. piano-roll) for you to select any the existing MIDI track and respective clips that will show up in the background as ghost, dimmed semi-transparent events.

See below an example screenshot where "Track 1" is shown as ghost to "Track 2".

Image

Enjoy && Cheers!

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Re: Editing several MIDI tracks at the same place

Postby bluebell » Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:15 pm

Nice, thank you. Can help a lot.

BTW I noticed that in the MIDI editor's window the "Auto backward" button is missing. Could you add it please?
Linux – MOTU UltraLite AVB – Qtractor – https://soundcloud.com/suedwestlicht

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Re: Editing several MIDI tracks at the same place

Postby rncbc » Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:29 pm

bluebell wrote:Nice, thank you. Can help a lot.


thanks

bluebell wrote:BTW I noticed that in the MIDI editor's window the "Auto backward" button is missing. Could you add it please?


most of transport controls are global, in the sense of the application of course, so the "auto-backward" option is currently only accessible through the main application window.

hth.
cheers


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