Poll - What recorder and/or sequencer do you primarily use?

Support & discussion regarding DAWs and MIDI sequencers.

Moderators: khz, MattKingUSA

What recorder and/or sequencer do you primarily use?

Ardour
27
42%
LMMS
2
3%
Non-Daw
2
3%
Non-Sequencer
3
5%
OOMIDI/OOM
1
2%
qtractor
13
20%
Rosegarden
4
6%
Traverso
0
No votes
Jokosher
0
No votes
Something else (please mention!)
12
19%
 
Total votes: 64

Aleks
Established Member
Posts: 285
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:36 pm

Re: Poll - What recorder and/or sequencer do you primarily u

Post by Aleks »

I've tried the OpenOctave yesterday, and the interface and the concept is great so far. Only that I didn't get any sound when working with MIDI data. Either I don't get it or something went wrong during the install process (I installed it by ppa, so I have no clue if there's a problem or not) However, what you can do with the audio? Can you apply effects to it, edit it and so on? Or I should I just stick to Ardour and not trying to be some bigtime conductor/composer here? :mrgreen:

Vixus
Established Member
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:16 pm

Re: Poll - What recorder and/or sequencer do you primarily u

Post by Vixus »

What did you select? Qtractor

What work do you do? Recording live instruments, sampling, MIDI orchestrations

You mainly deal with - audio, MIDI, or both? Both

What else have you tried earlier before settling on your current choices? LMMS, Ardour, Ableton Live, Reaper, Non-Sequencer, Non-DAW

Is there anything you find missing in your current program, or something you wish was improved?

For qtractor: Integrated audio editor, session management
For all DAWs: Better GUIs, session management, good plugin support.

Ok, I'm going to have to go on a bit of a rant now -- I really dislike the user interfaces in most DAWs, especially in Linux. There are often also a lot of program design decisions that are quite irritating. For me, Ableton is still the epitome of DAW GUI design -- things are docked neatly around the window, making good use of the large monitors and desktop resolutions that most of us now have access to. Of the Linux apps, Qtractor has the neatest and clearest UI (though I wish the mixer/connections windows could be docked). I'm sorry, but good GUI design is severely lacking in most linux DAWs.

Another plus for Qtractor is the excellent plugin support and MIDI instrument system. The Bus system takes a while (long while for me) to get used to but I guess it's ultimately quite powerful. The complete lack of in-DAW audio editing is a bit sad, since that would be a huge boon to people like me who like to get very down into the nitty-gritty of the sound. I can't run audacity in tandem with it either because of jack compatibility issues.

One of the main problems with music production on linux, right now, is the the lack of session management. IMO this should be done by the DAW -- it makes the most sense to me. In the case of Qtractor especially, since it interacts so well with jack and already works perfectly (well OK, not perfectly) if I'm using MIDI instrument and effect plugins. Nothing puts me off making music more than having some bit of software crash (which happens frequently), especially my DAW, losing all my connections and setup up to that point. Not to mention having to reload every single application and open the saved config for that application. Yes, I can write bash scripts to set up all of this but if I add a new program I have to remember to add it to the script etc. Alternatively, as many things as possible should be ported to LV2 (rakarrack as a plugin... drooool).

I know lots of people will say "but session management should be handled separately, it has nothing to do with the DAW!!" -- well that's not true. At the end of the day, when most people record their work, whether it's been thrown together with seq24 and hydrogen or is being played live, it's going into the DAW. Why not just have the whole framework set up and ready to go instead of adding the DAW at a later stage and making all the right connections? This would be great for having a template ready to fire up whenever you just want to be creative.

Plugins plugins plugins. They are the future. Opening multiple instances of a synth app or whatever eats up precious RAM and processing power (I don't really care about the cool, flashy GUI once my patch is done) that could be saved if it was a plugin.

/rant

Sorry guys, I love all your work but linux just kills my creativity right now :)

Aleks
Established Member
Posts: 285
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:36 pm

Re: Poll - What recorder and/or sequencer do you primarily u

Post by Aleks »

Vixus wrote:Why not just have the whole framework set up and ready to go instead of adding the DAW at a later stage and making all the right connections? This would be great for having a template ready to fire up whenever you just want to be creative.
You can do this with Gladish. I've saved two kinds of so called "studios" as they are named in Gladish - one is "Practice studio" which when I load it up it starts Guitarix, Tux Guitar and VLC, so that I could jam along or learn new stuff. The other fires up Guitarix, Hydorgen and Ardour, the basic apps that I use when I feel like I could make something or just experiment. It's only that when Ardour starts you have to create a project and all the stuff you have to do in the begining. But I'm sure you can save a session or something as a "studio". It's far better than connceting JACK all over and over again.

TheSafePlaces
Established Member
Posts: 200
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:50 am

Re: Poll - What recorder and/or sequencer do you primarily u

Post by TheSafePlaces »

Vixus wrote:Of the Linux apps, Qtractor has the neatest and clearest UI (though I wish the mixer/connections windows could be docked). I'm sorry, but good GUI design is severely lacking in most linux DAWs.
Agreed! I knew I wasn't alone :D

First of all, what distro are you using? I think I can safely recommend KXStudio - that will solve quite a few of your problems.

Thanks to the bridges and auto-JACK-start-on-startup, one never has to bother about things like Audacity not working with JACK, or PulseAudio, etc.

And Claudia (another LADISH frontend, like gladish), despite my gripes with it (see below), absolutely rocks my JACK-related life. KXStudio has something of an always-on-JACK philosophy, so one just runs Claudia, select the session, and one is ready to work. Connections are handled by default, and once you set up your session properly, it automatically loads the presets and save files as well.

My only major gripes - 1. For me, Claudia sometimes doesn't start my studio. I'm told this is mostly because I use Claudia wrong, and that documentation is forthcoming. I've fixed this to a certain extent by putting the four major KXStudio things on special shortcuts - Super+1 is Cadence (JACK toolbox/qjackctl replacement), Super+2 Claudia (sessions), Super+3 Catia (patchbay), Super+4 Cadence session restart script. When Claudia doesn't work, Super+4, Super+2, load studio again.
2. An acknowledged problem - LADISH currently does not support what are called 'multi-client apps'. For me, this means that of the four Linuxsampler devices I have in my session, three won't automatically connect, so I've to Super+3 (my shortcut for Catia) and connect them. Hm...this just gave me an idea for a Catia workaround to make this painless until LADISH is perfected... ;)

And, the KXStudio repos are not updated just for the heck of it - the program versions may be development versions, but only the ones reported to not have problems. As a result, nothing crashes on me, and some programs, crashy on other distros, perform near-flawlessly here.

Can't say about plugins vs standalone apps/in-DAW session management vs 'session-level' (dunno what to call it!) session management. The former sounds like its better for studio work, and the latter for live stuff (GUI - it is all that lets you see the parameters, right?). A 'plugins are the future' approach, I suspect, isn't going to cut the mustard. Plugins and standalones...they must coexist. And the plugin scene does seem to be improving...right?
Looking for the ideal distro. NixOS?
Newbie composer, somewhat-experienced classical guitarist.
Largely known as HisaoNakai/contrapunctus on IRC and other places.

Vixus
Established Member
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:16 pm

Re: Poll - What recorder and/or sequencer do you primarily u

Post by Vixus »

Hmm, having always-on-JACK is a nice idea but realistically not possible for me, since I use an external interface for I/O that isn't always connected to my laptop.

KXStudio has attracted my attention (although even falktx seems to suggest Gladish??) and the applications look amazing (good GUI design). I'm tempted to give it a go.
Can't say about plugins vs standalone apps/in-DAW session management vs 'session-level' (dunno what to call it!) session management. The former sounds like its better for studio work, and the latter for live stuff (GUI - it is all that lets you see the parameters, right?). A 'plugins are the future' approach, I suspect, isn't going to cut the mustard. Plugins and standalones...they must coexist.
But plugins do have GUIs (see the CALF plugins).. you just don't have to see them all the time. Standalone apps are great for performing a specialised task, like QMidiArp or Hydrogen but in the cases of things like synths where they (mostly) respond to MIDI input and produce audio, instrument plugins are adequate. Or else go the linuxsampler route where (I'm not 100% sure how this works) you have the plugins running as instances that a standalone frontend GUI can connect to.

Actually, right now, linuxsampler lv2 and qtractor don't work that well together because I have to reload the instrument settings each time from a saved linuxsampler session file saved using QSampler. This might just be my bad luck though.

Yes, for live work, a bunch of standalone apps interconnected are great because it's essentially a replica of what you'd have in the physical world but for just recording and jamming out ideas an integrated DAW is more useful, I think. I'm going to just try and use ladish/kxstudio and qtractor templates and see where it gets me :P

danboid
Established Member
Posts: 1305
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:28 am
Location: England

Re: Poll - What recorder and/or sequencer do you primarily u

Post by danboid »

Hi vixus!

re integrated or JACK wave editing - MusE features an integrated wave editor but MusE's plugin support is trailing far behind qtractor ie no LV2 or VST support yet although it is planned eventually. If you want a JACK friendly sound editor then check out mhwaveedit.

As for session management - thats something I try to avoid entirely as it makes me feel a bit ill. I'm on a holy quest to drum up support for more Linux plugins. Most people not running KXstudio or F's Cadence suite of tools - which are likely your best bet if you want to use session management - use qjackctl to control JACK which features integrated JACK session support although it lacks a number of features offered by LADISH/Cadence.

I personally love qtractors (Rui)GUI - once Rui adds the ability to draw lines to edit MIDI controller values and we get the revamped Add Track window with auto-creation of busses and the ability to create multiple tracks I think I'll be all set to quit whining personally. Safeplaces has unofficially requested a quick way to bounce MIDI tracks and that would also be nice to see although I don't think we'd pine that so much when the aforementioned features get implemented.

Seeing as you're a big fan of Ableton you may end up switching to Bitwig when that gets released as it seems to have more than just a number of developers in common with that trending DAW.
Are you new to Linux Audio? This manual explains how to install KXStudio, set up and use JACK, mimimize latency, lists the best Linux AV apps and much more all in a concise and easy to understand format.

http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/kxstudio_manual

User avatar
autostatic
Established Member
Posts: 1728
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:26 pm
Location: Beverwijk, The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Poll - What recorder and/or sequencer do you primarily u

Post by autostatic »

Vixus wrote:Of the Linux apps, Qtractor has the neatest and clearest UI (though I wish the mixer/connections windows could be docked). I'm sorry, but good GUI design is severely lacking in most linux DAWs.
Theoretically you can achieve pseudo-docking by enabling 'Keep tool windows always on top' in the Options menu of Qtractor and then do some creative placement of the windows with wmctrl for instance. Or file a feature request ;)

Vixus
Established Member
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:16 pm

Re: Poll - What recorder and/or sequencer do you primarily u

Post by Vixus »

danboid wrote:Seeing as you're a big fan of Ableton you may end up switching to Bitwig when that gets released as it seems to have more than just a number of developers in common with that trending DAW.
But bitwig will cost money and musicians don't have money, everyone knows that. :P
I'm not a huge fan or anything.. I used it for a couple of months many years ago when I still had a windows box.
AutoStatic wrote:Theoretically you can achieve pseudo-docking by enabling 'Keep tool windows always on top' in the Options menu of Qtractor and then do some creative placement of the windows with wmctrl for instance. Or file a feature request ;)
Heh, if I had the time I'd gladly design an entire GUI but maybe Twindy is something I should look into :P

TheSafePlaces
Established Member
Posts: 200
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:50 am

Re: Poll - What recorder and/or sequencer do you primarily u

Post by TheSafePlaces »

Vixus wrote:Hmm, having always-on-JACK is a nice idea but realistically not possible for me, since I use an external interface for I/O that isn't always connected to my laptop.
Mere trifles. Cadence pwns because if it doesn't find your specificed interface, it'll fallback to something else - like your laptop onboard card. And when you connect your interface back, it's already selected in Cadence, so no need to change config when you're switching between intefaces. In other words, in my experience, JACK will run, come hell or high water. Wahaha~! 8)
Vixus wrote:But plugins do have GUIs (see the CALF plugins).. you just don't have to see them all the time. Standalone apps are great for performing a specialised task, like QMidiArp or Hydrogen but in the cases of things like synths where they (mostly) respond to MIDI input and produce audio, instrument plugins are adequate. Or else go the linuxsampler route where (I'm not 100% sure how this works) you have the plugins running as instances that a standalone frontend GUI can connect to.
I didn't mean to imply that plugins don't have a GUI :lol: But don't take my opinions on plugin vs standalone too seriously - I rarely work with too much stuff, for me it's usually either 1 MIDI input, qtractor, ~50 channels of Linuxsampler, or 1 audio input with 1 qtractor and 1 rakarrack. It's better to hear from more experienced folks on this.
Vixus wrote:Actually, right now, linuxsampler lv2 and qtractor don't work that well together because I have to reload the instrument settings each time from a saved linuxsampler session file saved using QSampler. This might just be my bad luck though.
I'm afraid it looks like its just you, linuxsampler LV2 in qtractor is - touchwood - working as nice as usual for me. o.o
Looking for the ideal distro. NixOS?
Newbie composer, somewhat-experienced classical guitarist.
Largely known as HisaoNakai/contrapunctus on IRC and other places.

nilshi
Established Member
Posts: 326
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:05 pm
Contact:

Re: Poll - What recorder and/or sequencer do you primarily u

Post by nilshi »

I use Laborejo. (and QTractor and A3)
which currently exports midi files per track, which I play back with a layered jack-smf-player.

Until direct jack midi playback support is in Laborejo.

Vixus
Established Member
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:16 pm

Re: Poll - What recorder and/or sequencer do you primarily u

Post by Vixus »

TheSafePlaces wrote:Mere trifles. Cadence pwns because if it doesn't find your specificed interface, it'll fallback to something else - like your laptop onboard card. And when you connect your interface back, it's already selected in Cadence, so no need to change config when you're switching between intefaces. In other words, in my experience, JACK will run, come hell or high water. Wahaha~! 8)
This works even if the config for low-latency without xruns on both soundcards is totally different? That's impressive :)
So do you just run jackd on startup?
TheSafePlaces wrote:I'm afraid it looks like its just you, linuxsampler LV2 in qtractor is - touchwood - working as nice as usual for me. o.o
Yeah, I'm using SFZ files from the SSO collection and they just don't load back up without errors so I have to open up Qsampler and mess with everything all over again.

TheSafePlaces
Established Member
Posts: 200
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:50 am

Re: Poll - What recorder and/or sequencer do you primarily u

Post by TheSafePlaces »

Vixus wrote:This works even if the config for low-latency without xruns on both soundcards is totally different? That's impressive :)
Actually, I don't know what'll happen if I switch between more than 2 sound cards (onboard, and two externals, for instance). Still, if I could wrap my head around how Claudia/gladish/LADISH is supposed to be used properly, that wouldn't be a problem no matter what the scenario. All the same, pretty happy in KXStudio.
Vixus wrote:So do you just run jackd on startup?
Naw, one adds Cadence to system startup, and ticks the Auto-Start JACK at login box...although I suppose that one's possible too.
Vixus wrote:Yeah, I'm using SFZ files from the SSO collection and they just don't load back up without errors so I have to open up Qsampler and mess with everything all over again.
That's exactly what I use too O_o Is this the one from the creator's site or from the OOMIDI team? Because the original ones have trouble working in Linux because of some path-capitalization problem in the SFZ files...if this is the case, you can simply edit the paths in the SFZ files in any text editor, or you can download the package with the fixed SFZ files here.
Looking for the ideal distro. NixOS?
Newbie composer, somewhat-experienced classical guitarist.
Largely known as HisaoNakai/contrapunctus on IRC and other places.

User avatar
warkus
Established Member
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:44 pm
Location: NSW, Australia

Re: Poll - What recorder and/or sequencer do you primarily u

Post by warkus »

Recording - Ardour
Sequencing - Muse

Minkovsky
Established Member
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:14 am

Re: Poll - What recorder and/or sequencer do you primarily u

Post by Minkovsky »

TheSafePlaces wrote:Just curious to know what everyone uses and why, and what's the most popular stuff. :)

Also, please answer the following questions -
What did you select? (If you selected 'Something else', please mention the program here.)
What work do you do? (film scoring, recording bands, professionally or as a hobby, etc)
You mainly deal with - audio, MIDI, or both?
I'm creating music as a hobby (that's why I started using free software), and while I'm primarily dealing with LMMS, I've been interested in switching to the seq24 + ardour + a bunch of jack apps mode.
If you voted for more than one option, for what tasks do you prefer each program?
Ardour is great for mixing audio, and LMMS is a solid music suite in general. But now that Ardour 3 has improved MIDI capabilities, there might be no reason to keep using LMMS other than embedded Zyn.
What else have you tried earlier before settling on your current choices? What caused you to leave from your previous programs? Are you looking to shift to a different program from your current one?
Is there anything you find missing in your current program, or something you wish was improved?
Pirated FL Studio on pirated Windows... Got rid of it, though. Because really, who wants that. Also I didn't like the whole VST business. JACK's model seems much better.

What I'd like to see improved is hardware support (but that's a thing about Linux in general). A lot of manufacturers just don't care.

TheSafePlaces
Established Member
Posts: 200
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:50 am

Re: Poll - What recorder and/or sequencer do you primarily u

Post by TheSafePlaces »

Minkovsky wrote: What I'd like to see improved is hardware support (but that's a thing about Linux in general). A lot of manufacturers just don't care.
Seconded =S

And by the way, if you like Seq24, you might be interested in HarmonySEQ, Kluppe, Luppp, and Giada :D
Looking for the ideal distro. NixOS?
Newbie composer, somewhat-experienced classical guitarist.
Largely known as HisaoNakai/contrapunctus on IRC and other places.

Post Reply